| Pagine: < [1 2 3] > | Side-by-side view is better -- says who? Iniziatore argomento: Samuel Murray
|
|---|
John Fossey 
Canada
Local time: 19:51
Membro (2008)
Da Francese a Inglese
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
I myself find the side-by-side view to be a burden on both productivity and consistency, but I suppose this may be because my two languages use similar sentence constructions.
Thanks
Samuel
I, for one, fully agree, at least for my language pair, simply because your eye has less work to do when the sentences are similar in construction. I feel that it's easier to spot word/meaning pairings with above-and-below layout, although I have no quantitative proof of this.
For some languages with entirely differing sentence constructions I can see there could be no advantage to above-and-below, so it really needs to be configurable by the translator.
| | | | heikeb
Membro (2003)
Da Inglese a Tedesco
+ ...
| Physical reasons | Jan 12, 2012 |
A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio. My eyes got pretty tired after constantly having to go from left to right and back again. With longer sentences, I felt I lost quite a bit of time finding my place again in the source because I had to take my eyes away from it all the time. It didn't help my concentration or train of thought as I had to physically and mentally refocus constantly.
With the exception of really long sentences, in horizontal view, I can keep both source ... See more A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio. My eyes got pretty tired after constantly having to go from left to right and back again. With longer sentences, I felt I lost quite a bit of time finding my place again in the source because I had to take my eyes away from it all the time. It didn't help my concentration or train of thought as I had to physically and mentally refocus constantly.
With the exception of really long sentences, in horizontal view, I can keep both source and target in view at the same time. Much, much faster and much more friendly on the eyes. (And the sentence structure of my source and target languages English-German is very different.)
The vertical view is one of the main reasons I don't use Studio. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Excellent idea | Jan 12, 2012 |
Long ago, even before I was a Studio user, I put in my vote for Stanislav's idea since I could see its obvious usefulness.
Now that I use Studio 2011, all the more I support his idea.
| | | | | Side by side | Jan 13, 2012 |
I much prefer side by side view to the sort of vertical view TagEditor offered. That was just a mess.
However, the idea of keeping the overall side by side arrangement and moving just the editing field under the current segment sounds interesting. I might use that if it was available - especially with tag-infested documents.
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio [/quote]
That's the key right there. After half an hour, anything that you aren't used to tends to feel awful. Give it two weeks and you can form a more well-founded opinion on it.
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Paesi Bassi
Local time: 01:51
Membro (2006)
Da Inglese a Afrikaans
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO | Side-by-side is not the opposite of TagEditor | Jan 13, 2012 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
I much prefer side by side view to the sort of vertical view TagEditor offered. That was just a mess.
I see many people who prefer side-by-side view do so because their experience with above-and-blow is TagEditor. But TagEditor is truly a mess. TagEditor is not what above-and-below should look like (nor do most above-and-below editors look like that). I suspect some people are put off by the above-and-below method because they think it means "what looks like TagEditor".
Some above-and-below CAT tools make a blank line between every segment (e.g. OmegaT) whereas other such tools retain paragraph layout (e.g. WFC), so that what you're looking at is not a mess.
I also wonder if the increases in productivity that some people experience between Trados 2007 and Trados 2009 isn't specifically because of the layout of either but because of the messiness of TagEditor versus the cleanliness of Studio.
| | | | | I prefer side-by-side | Jan 13, 2012 |
I definitely prefer side-by-side, but for none of the reasons mentioned previously. As a touch typist I, unless the file is chock full of tags I don't bounce my eyes back and forth but simply keep set on the source side (of course, I imagine bouncing up and down isn't really that different from side to side).
but the side view gives me an added check in terms of sentence length. My language pair is Italian-English and the English is usually shorter. I have an at-a-glance check which, with... See more I definitely prefer side-by-side, but for none of the reasons mentioned previously. As a touch typist I, unless the file is chock full of tags I don't bounce my eyes back and forth but simply keep set on the source side (of course, I imagine bouncing up and down isn't really that different from side to side).
but the side view gives me an added check in terms of sentence length. My language pair is Italian-English and the English is usually shorter. I have an at-a-glance check which, without even thinking, gives me a quick take on whether they two sides are very different. If the English side is much shorter, or even a bit longer, it gives me pause. I immediately re-read and eliminate any discrepancies at the very outset.
Eileen ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Touch typing | Jan 13, 2012 |
Eileen Cartoon wrote:
I definitely prefer side-by-side, but for none of the reasons mentioned previously. As a touch typist I, unless the file is chock full of tags I don't bounce my eyes back and forth but simply keep set on the source side
That's definitely a factor. I touch type, too, so I look at the source side when I'm typing. When I'm not, I get a much clearer view of what's translated and what's not, and it's much easier to, say, look for a particular sentence or word in either the source or the target text etc.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Paesi Bassi
Local time: 01:51
Membro (2006)
Da Inglese a Afrikaans
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO | Vertical eye movement is more tiring | Jan 13, 2012 |
Eileen Cartoon wrote:
I imagine bouncing [your eyes] up and down isn't really that different from side to side.
When glancing from the source to the target and back:
1. I find that rapid vertical eye movement is more tiring than horizontal, even if the angles of movement are the same. I can also move my eyes up and down quicker than left and right.
2. Even if both horizontal and vertical eye movement is the same to you, in the CAT tool the angles are not the same, which makes it worse. In an above-and-below view, your eyes move only about 3 degrees, whereas in a side-by-side view, your eyes move about 25 degrees.
...the side view gives me an added check in terms of sentence length.
Do you know of a CAT tool in which the above-and-below view does not show both source and target text with the same left and right margin, so that you can't keep an eye on sentence length? In fact, I find it easier to check sentence length in the above-and-below view, because the target sentence is directly underneath the source sentence.
As a touch typist I, unless the file is chock full of tags I don't bounce my eyes back and forth but simply keep set on the source side.
Aaah, well that is different for me. Since my two languages are similar in sentence construction, I tend to translate phrase by phrase, not a whole sentence at once, which means that I glance back and forth between the source and target text several times in a sentence. In complex sentences, I often move my cursor around in the translation quite a bit even though I haven't completed that sentence yet, so it is vital for me to be able to look at the target text during translation (even though I type blind otherwise).
| | |
|
|
|
heikeb
Membro (2003)
Da Inglese a Tedesco
+ ...
FarkasAndras wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio
That's the key right there. After half an hour, anything that you aren't used to tends to feel awful. Give it two weeks and you can form a more well-founded opinion on it.
I've had plenty of experience working in vertical views with DSLX. In addition to its often extremely irritating format paint (in general an ingenious idea, in practical application a curse, particulary with nested tags), it is its vertical view that makes it rank at the bottom of my list of CAT tools.
| | | |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote: FarkasAndras wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio
That's the key right there. After half an hour, anything that you aren't used to tends to feel awful. Give it two weeks and you can form a more well-founded opinion on it.
I've had plenty of experience working in vertical views with DSLX. In addition to its often extremely irritating format paint (in general an ingenious idea, in practical application a curse, particulary with nested tags), it is its vertical view that makes it rank at the bottom of my list of CAT tools.
Actually, it's called SDLX, not DSLX, and it uses horizontal (side by side) view, not vertical.
| | | | heikeb
Membro (2003)
Da Inglese a Tedesco
+ ...
FarkasAndras wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote: FarkasAndras wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
A while ago, I worked for half an hour in Studio
That's the key right there. After half an hour, anything that you aren't used to tends to feel awful. Give it two weeks and you can form a more well-founded opinion on it.
I've had plenty of experience working in vertical views with DSLX. In addition to its often extremely irritating format paint (in general an ingenious idea, in practical application a curse, particulary with nested tags), it is its vertical view that makes it rank at the bottom of my list of CAT tools. Actually, it's called SDLX, not DSLX, and it uses horizontal (side by side) view, not vertical.
Thanks for correcting me! You caught me on my dyslexic day! (Although I think it's rather a case of Freudian repression that prevented me from getting the letters into the right order!).
I see two (vertical) columns next to each other > vertical view. I see two text boxes stretched out on top of each other horizontally > horizontal view.
None of this changes anything of the meaning of my post, though, does it?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Paesi Bassi
Local time: 01:51
Membro (2006)
Da Inglese a Afrikaans
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO | The meaning of horizontal | Jan 14, 2012 |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote: FarkasAndras wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
...it is its vertical view that makes it rank at the bottom of my list of CAT tools. Actually, ... it uses horizontal (side by side) view, not vertical. I see two (vertical) columns next to each other > vertical view. I see two text boxes stretched out on top of each other horizontally > horizontal view.
I think the terms "horizontal" and "vertical" are not good terms in this case, because different people (even in this tread) apparently mean different things by it. The side-by-side view is vertical in the sense that the columns are vertical, but horizontal in the sense that the eyes move horizontally from source text to target text.
In fact, I can't even remember which term I used for which meaning in my posts above -- each time I write about it, I use the word that comes most natural to me for that context, but it may be a different one each time
| | |
|
|
|
Kirsten Bodart
Regno Unito
Local time: 01:51
Da Olandese a Inglese
+ ...
| I wouldn't know | Jan 14, 2012 |
If I am doing a text which is not in CAT, I usually do horizontal. If it is in CAT I do vertical. I don't really see a difference.
Apart from the fact that I much prefer to work without CAT as such tools might help you in being consistent (I concede that), but they don't do much for producing a good text. At least not for my husband and I. One loses all bearing of paragraph, sentence and formatting, and therefore, it is well-nigh impossible to produce a well-written and well-flowin... See more If I am doing a text which is not in CAT, I usually do horizontal. If it is in CAT I do vertical. I don't really see a difference.
Apart from the fact that I much prefer to work without CAT as such tools might help you in being consistent (I concede that), but they don't do much for producing a good text. At least not for my husband and I. One loses all bearing of paragraph, sentence and formatting, and therefore, it is well-nigh impossible to produce a well-written and well-flowing text. It's like trying to drive a car in first gear. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
Cina
Local time: 07:51
Da Cinese a Inglese
| Side by side works for me | Jan 14, 2012 |
Perhaps because my languages are very different, and phrase-by-phrase translation doesn't work at all. But also because I have a big problem with the up-and-down orientation: I always put my translation above the original text, whereas CAT tools always put it below. Dunno if there's an option to change this.
My reasons for working this way up are a psychological reminder that my text must be a functioning text in its own right, not some kind of adjunct to the source text. But working this ... See more Perhaps because my languages are very different, and phrase-by-phrase translation doesn't work at all. But also because I have a big problem with the up-and-down orientation: I always put my translation above the original text, whereas CAT tools always put it below. Dunno if there's an option to change this.
My reasons for working this way up are a psychological reminder that my text must be a functioning text in its own right, not some kind of adjunct to the source text. But working this way up also seems to flow much better for me.
I hated the Studio environment for quite a while. Abstracting away from the layout of the source doc is a big problem. But then I started to look at it as a way to help forget things like layout and text coherence, to focus narrowly on phrase and sentence equivalence, in preparation for a thorough edit and proofread afterwards.
So I'm now quite a fan of Studio and its layout, and you might say I'm a fan because of how messed up the side-by-side view is, rather than because I think it's a good layout. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germania
Local time: 01:51
Membro (2003)
Da Polacco a Tedesco
+ ...
Kirsten Bodart wrote:
If I am doing a text which is not in CAT, I usually do horizontal. If it is in CAT I do vertical. I don't really see a difference.
Apart from the fact that I much prefer to work without CAT as such tools might help you in being consistent (I concede that), but they don't do much for producing a good text. At least not for my husband and I. One loses all bearing of paragraph, sentence and formatting, and therefore, it is well-nigh impossible to produce a well-written and well-flowing text. It's like trying to drive a car in first gear.
Doing a translation manually without a CAT tool is like driving a car with manual gear shift in an environment of a lot of hills and curves.
When you then switch to CAT it is like driving a car with automatic gear box on the same road.
What you say about paragraph and sentence might apply to TagEditor, but certainly does not apply in Studio. Here you see paragraphs, sentences and even formatting as such if you wish.
The only difference between text in layout and text in Studio is, that Studio shows the text similar to Word in normal mode. AFAIK many translators do use exactly this view in Word, so the difference is marginal then.
| | | | | Pagine: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Side-by-side view is better -- says who? | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news related to CAT tools
