| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Discounts and rates for fuzzy match and repetitions Thread poster: Rosanna Casamassima
|
|---|
| Certified Pro and Ethics | Feb 28, 2012 |
If an agency or a translating company doesn't want to pay for repetitions or 100% matches I can understand it; it is part of their "philosophy" to try and gobble up as much as they can with disregard to quality, and in the long run to Ethics.
But when the same stance is enforced by a Certified Pro translator in a job offer (i.e. today) I start doubting about the value of the Certified Pro program, as far as the variety of care some translators give to their output.
Woul... See more If an agency or a translating company doesn't want to pay for repetitions or 100% matches I can understand it; it is part of their "philosophy" to try and gobble up as much as they can with disregard to quality, and in the long run to Ethics.
But when the same stance is enforced by a Certified Pro translator in a job offer (i.e. today) I start doubting about the value of the Certified Pro program, as far as the variety of care some translators give to their output.
Would you as a translator, let a machine think for you and decide, or would you supervise and examine what the machine is producing? Do machines commit errors? Haven't you ever changed your mind about the wording in a phrase or paragraph you had in your TM (with a 100% match) due to a different context, or simply because you feel it sounds better?
Isn't thinking and evaluating and deciding what to do with a repetition or 100% match, worth something, or should one just let the machines decide?
What if the 100% match in the TM delivered by the client is a bad translation, would you say "oh, I won't fix that because I'm not going to be paid for that"? Ethically you can't because you are responsible, and accountable, for what you deliver, even if you don't sign or certify it.
Isn't this part of the "Professional Guidelines" (i.e. "take any and all steps necessary to ensure consistent delivery of work of a high professional standard"). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman 
Slovakia
Local time: 08:38
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
| Put it simply, yes. | Feb 28, 2012 |
I can warn the client before, during and after translation, but if he is satisfied with original TM and do not want to have it corrected (or, better said, do not want to pay for correction) there is NOTHING else what I could do. And especially in the case of translation agencies - charging a client for corrections would mean admission that previous translations, which they also managed, were of lower quality.
Of course, I would refuse (actually, I did refuse) translation of each 5t... See more I can warn the client before, during and after translation, but if he is satisfied with original TM and do not want to have it corrected (or, better said, do not want to pay for correction) there is NOTHING else what I could do. And especially in the case of translation agencies - charging a client for corrections would mean admission that previous translations, which they also managed, were of lower quality.
Of course, I would refuse (actually, I did refuse) translation of each 5th or 10th sentence in big document. One neede to to be familiarised with context and to be paid for familiarisation. But, generally, if a client has a right to ask me to translate only highlighted parts (and I believe he has the right), then he can ask me to do same (i.e. to skip non-highlighted parts) by not checking full matches.
traductorchile wrote:
What if the 100% match in the TM delivered by the client is a bad translation, would you say "oh, I won't fix that because I'm not going to be paid for that"? Ethically you can't because you are responsible, and accountable, for what you deliver, even if you don't sign or certify it.
▲ Collapse
| | | | | Simple it is | Feb 28, 2012 |
Vladimír Hoffman wrote:
But, generally, if a client has a right to ask me to translate only highlighted parts (and I believe he has the right), then he can ask me to do same (i.e. to skip non-highlighted parts) by not checking full matches.
I agree, if a client says translate A but don't translate B, that's what you have to do. But I don't skip the A segments, I extract the B segments and translate them on a separate file, and when finished I paste them back on the original and/or send the B file (or a bilingual B file). If I use the original file I would fill my own TM with "Original language" to "Original language" segments or with segments from his TM that I haven't checked, something that might ruin my own TM or my project TM.
If you find an error in the original text it is my belief that it is a responsible attitude to call the client's atention, if there can be consequences, but it is not your responsibility to correct it (you haven't been hired to review the original but to translate it.
If the client's TM is inadequate, and you are convinced that the consequence would be harmful for the client, then you should stand firm. If he insists in changing it after you have delivered your work, that's his responsibility, and as you say there is nothing you can do. However Copyright laws are quite clear on the subject, and if your name is published on a translation that was modified by the client, and you find that his changes devalue your work or your professional standing, there is something you can do. You'd have to put in the balance if it is worthwhile.
[Edited at 2012-02-28 16:58 GMT]
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovakia
Local time: 08:38
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
| Okay, but now we are | Feb 28, 2012 |
discussing rather technical aspects, I suppose. There are several ways how to avoid spoiling own or project TM, such as locking segments, pretranslating and highligting full matches, extracting non-full-matches and non-matches into separate file and translate there them and so on.
However, I fully agree with you that when we are talking about copyright, the situation is sharply different. If my name were to be published on translation, I would strongly resist to any attempts to... See more discussing rather technical aspects, I suppose. There are several ways how to avoid spoiling own or project TM, such as locking segments, pretranslating and highligting full matches, extracting non-full-matches and non-matches into separate file and translate there them and so on.
However, I fully agree with you that when we are talking about copyright, the situation is sharply different. If my name were to be published on translation, I would strongly resist to any attempts to modify my work. I fully understand to my sworn colleagues, who are willing to argue with a client about correctness of their terminology. And I was same in my younger years, although I am not sworn translator and my name is very rarely published. But, I got worn out. If a client wants to have strange, sometimes even funny texts on its website (and I am now talking about big, reputable organizations), it is his own business. If a client (again reputable company) wants to continue using word "informations" in its questionnaires despite having been noticed of the fault several times, it is again his own business. If a client wants to sell his products with messy user manuals, it is again and again nothing of my business. I do not know (and do not care) if a client wants to save money or if an agency persuaded him "you need to have translated only new words, no need for reviewing older text". Sometimes I have feeling that (some) clients do not read the translations at all, only need to "have the text translated".
Fortunately, there are still some direct clients who are interested in high-quality texts and who are willing to pay for them.
traductorchile wrote:
If I use the original file I would fill my own TM with "Original language" to "Original language" segments or with segments from his TM that I haven't checked, something that might ruin my own TM or my project TM.
If you find an error in the original text it is my belief that it is a responsible attitude to call the client's atention, if there can be consequences, but it is not your responsibility to correct it (you haven't been hired to review the original but to translate it.
However Copyright laws are quite clear on the subject, and if your name is published on a translation that was modified by the client, and you find that his changes devalue your work or your professional standing, there is something you can do.
[Edited at 2012-02-28 16:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
macimovic
Netherlands
Local time: 08:38
English to Serbian
+ ...
I believed I was alone but I see so many of you have similar attitude! I like how you said it. And I cannot believe someone wouldn't check their translation even if the match was 100%.
It often happened to me that a 100% match simply didn't fit the overall translation and I had to replace it with more appropriate word. How to explain this to agencies?
traductorchile wrote:
If an agency or a translating company doesn't want to pay for repetitions or 100% matches I can understand it; it is part of their "philosophy" to try and gobble up as much as they can with disregard to quality, and in the long run to Ethics.
But when the same stance is enforced by a Certified Pro translator in a job offer (i.e. today) I start doubting about the value of the Certified Pro program, as far as the variety of care some translators give to their output.
Would you as a translator, let a machine think for you and decide, or would you supervise and examine what the machine is producing? Do machines commit errors? Haven't you ever changed your mind about the wording in a phrase or paragraph you had in your TM (with a 100% match) due to a different context, or simply because you feel it sounds better?
Isn't thinking and evaluating and deciding what to do with a repetition or 100% match, worth something, or should one just let the machines decide?
What if the 100% match in the TM delivered by the client is a bad translation, would you say "oh, I won't fix that because I'm not going to be paid for that"? Ethically you can't because you are responsible, and accountable, for what you deliver, even if you don't sign or certify it.
Isn't this part of the "Professional Guidelines" (i.e. "take any and all steps necessary to ensure consistent delivery of work of a high professional standard").
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:38
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| fuzzy discount table | Feb 19, 2013 |
Hi Rosanna ,
Here's my fuzzy discount table:
100% + Repetition + 101%: 15%
95-99%: 60%
No Match: 100%
Michael
| | | | lestertrad
Local time: 08:38
French to English
+ ...
| With or without spaces? | May 3, 2013 |
David Jacques wrote:
I vaguely remember there being a site on the Internet on which the originator of this nonsense actually admittd it was nothing more than a way of reducing translation costs and had little or nothing to do with reality.
I had a client, an agency in Marseille that will remain nameless, who insisted not only on paying me for the number of English words rather than the number of words in the French original (about a 6% bonus for them), but also that I remove the number of spaces between words from the word count. To this day I regret that I didn't tell them "Okay, but I'll send you the translation without the spaces between the words."
| | | | | "Discounts and rates for fuzzy match and repetitions" | Mar 11, 2016 |
Recently, an Agency called me to provide Translation services, requesting the use of CAT TOOLS and they suggested to consider the following:
Repetition: 20%
F. Match 95%-99%: 30%
F. Match 85%-94%: 50%
F. Match 75%-84%: 60%
F. Match 50%-74%: 100%
I would appreciate your opinion
Thank you
| | |
|
|
|
| Could be worse | Mar 11, 2016 |
Malena Garcia wrote:
Repetition: 20%
F. Match 95%-99%: 30%
F. Match 85%-94%: 50%
F. Match 75%-84%: 60%
F. Match 50%-74%: 100%
As per title, I've seen worse proposed by some agencies. However, since they asked you to consider it, you could try raising some of them a little, like the 75-84 one, for instance.
Even better if you could have 85-94 at 60% and 75-84 at 100%, but I guess that wouldn't fly with them...
| | | | Laura Kingdon
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:38
Member (2015)
French to English
+ ...
| No discounts for fuzzies | Mar 11, 2016 |
I just don't find that fuzzy matches save me any time, so as a rule I won't work with agencies that want discounts for them unless they are paying me higher per-word rates to begin with. 100% matches do save time, but still often require some checking/processing/rewriting on my part, so I am willing to give deep discounts for those; however, I won't accept no payment for 100% matches, which is something I've been asked for by a few agencies lately and which effectively equates to asking me to wo... See more I just don't find that fuzzy matches save me any time, so as a rule I won't work with agencies that want discounts for them unless they are paying me higher per-word rates to begin with. 100% matches do save time, but still often require some checking/processing/rewriting on my part, so I am willing to give deep discounts for those; however, I won't accept no payment for 100% matches, which is something I've been asked for by a few agencies lately and which effectively equates to asking me to work for free.
If the 100% matches are in a client TM and the client doesn't want them changed, that's a different matter, but that's not a situation I usually deal with. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Another concern | Mar 12, 2016 |
If I am asked to work with the agency's TM I will have no idea how good that TM is, until I have worked with it, so I would not be so keenly accepting their rules until I know that this works for me as well.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:38
Serbian to English
+ ...
| 100% "match"? Besides a "match" possibly not being one at all, SO WHAT? | Mar 12, 2016 |
Milica Aćimović wrote: I believed I was alone but I see so many of you have similar attitude! I like how you said it. And I cannot believe someone wouldn't check their translation even if the match was 100%. It often happened to me that a 100% match simply didn't fit the overall translation and I had to replace it with more appropriate word. How to explain this to agencies? traductorchile wrote:
If an agency or a translating company doesn't want to pay for repetitions or 100% matches I can understand it; it is part of their "philosophy" to try and gobble up as much as they can with disregard to quality, and in the long run to Ethics.
But when the same stance is enforced by a Certified Pro translator in a job offer (i.e. today) I start doubting about the value of the Certified Pro program, as far as the variety of care some translators give to their output.
Would you as a translator, let a machine think for you and decide, or would you supervise and examine what the machine is producing? Do machines commit errors? Haven't you ever changed your mind about the wording in a phrase or paragraph you had in your TM (with a 100% match) due to a different context, or simply because you feel it sounds better?
Isn't thinking and evaluating and deciding what to do with a repetition or 100% match, worth something, or should one just let the machines decide?
What if the 100% match in the TM delivered by the client is a bad translation, would you say "oh, I won't fix that because I'm not going to be paid for that"? Ethically you can't because you are responsible, and accountable, for what you deliver, even if you don't sign or certify it.
Isn't this part of the "Professional Guidelines" (i.e. "take any and all steps necessary to ensure consistent delivery of work of a high professional standard").
Can't agree more!
"It often happened to me that a 100% match simply didn't fit the overall translation and I had to replace it with more appropriate word. How to explain this to agencies?"
if the agency is run by linguists, or by people who a least really understand what translating is, you shouldn't have to do any explaining!
Obviously not everyone has the same conception of "being responsible for the quality of the WHOLE translated text ..."
when you need a lawyer, do they offer you reductions because 99% of the contract they prepare for you is 100% match with the contract they prepared for the previous client? You can always try to ask ...
when you need an architect, are you going to ask reductions on the ground that half of the project "tailor-made for you" is just reusing elements of the previous project?
Are you going to pay less a private MD on the ground that you had "the same illness as last time"?
=== At the end of the day, that is also a "100% match", isn't it? ===
And so on, and so on ...
All that not taking into account that recognising a real "match" implies that the software should be capable of correctly parsing sentences, (that unfortunately can't be said even of many protein-based translating devices) which in turn can't be done without "understanding the meaning of the text", recognising which group of words (even when they are NOT next to each other) has a meaning on its own, and when two words just happen to be next to each other.
just one example: given that the verb "faire" in French can be part of hundreds of different expressions, how can any software at the present level of development of IT be capable of recognising if there is or not a real match between two uses of "faire"? OK, that's an extreme example, but even if there are just two possible meanings, the stupid software is stumped...
I find it depressing that a tool that is supposedly there to help with consistency and efficiency in translating is turned into an excuse for mindless penny-pinching, and even more depressing that some "professionals" are just going along with it!
[Edited at 2016-03-12 09:31 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-03-14 23:44 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-03-14 23:53 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| That is always the case... | Mar 12, 2016 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
If I am asked to work with the agency's TM I will have no idea how good that TM is, until I have worked with it, so I would not be so keenly accepting their rules until I know that this works for me as well.
... even if it's you who propose a discount matrix to the agency. You may work on a project with flawless TMs and then on another one with "not so flawless" TMs, so the only way to be 100% safe is by refusing to grant any discount (and having the agency meekly accept that, of course...).
This brings us back to the perennial debate about who sets the conditions, who has more bargaining power and what is acceptable/unacceptable, although the answer to those questions largely depends on specific conditions and can't be really generalized (IMO).-
| | | |
I might take that risk with a smaller job, but not with a large one. I often give some discounts where I feel I have saved quite a bit of time, e.g. recently a client didn't realise they gave me a text I had already translated just with some changes ... I felt I needed to bring that up.
What I do not like is agencies prescribing some blanket discount scheme and a set rate they need to enter into their system, especially when they suggest to not pay for repetitions and 100% matches, ... See more I might take that risk with a smaller job, but not with a large one. I often give some discounts where I feel I have saved quite a bit of time, e.g. recently a client didn't realise they gave me a text I had already translated just with some changes ... I felt I needed to bring that up.
What I do not like is agencies prescribing some blanket discount scheme and a set rate they need to enter into their system, especially when they suggest to not pay for repetitions and 100% matches, this often comes with a 60 days payment term, a certain CAT tool that needs to be used and other exciting ideas some non-linguist business executive has had in order to increase the agency's profit margin.
[Edited at 2016-03-12 11:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | MeridianLing
Hong Kong
Local time: 14:38
Korean to English
+ ...
| | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Discounts and rates for fuzzy match and repetitions | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
