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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

bei sekundär- und primärseitigem Spannungsausfall

English translation:

with loss of voltage on the secondary or on the primary side

Added to glossary by David Williams
Feb 26, 2010 08:18
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

bei sekundär- und primärseitigem Spannungsausfall

German to English Tech/Engineering Electronics / Elect Eng
Context:

"Die Netzgeräte des Controllers werden durch eine Powerfailschaltung überwacht, diese liefert ein POWER- FAIL-Ausgangssignal bei sekundär- und primärseitigem Spannungsausfall."

I'm not sure whether this "and" actually means that the power-fail signal is generated in the event of a secondary power failure as well as in the event of a primary power failure, or if it is a logical and, i.e. only in the event of a secondary power failure AND a primary power failure, but not in the event of a secondary or primary power failure on its own.

The system has built-in redundancy ("Die Stromversorgung ist redundant ausgeführt") with two power supply units, one main PSU and one spare (dual redundant hot swappable PSUs), cf. http://www.proz.com/kudoz/3718769
Proposed translations (English)
4 with loss of voltage on the secondary or on the primary side
5 if main or backup/secondary power is lost
4 in the event of a secondary power failure and a primary power failure

Discussion

David Williams (asker) Feb 26, 2010:
Oh! Many thanks, that wasn't clear to me. I see now.
Richard Stephen Feb 26, 2010:
Transformer not PSU The discussion assumes, as do I, that we are talking about a transformer in the PSU not a "primary" and "secondary" PSU. The latter might be the case if the source only said "Primär und secondär" but with "primär-seitig" and "secondär-seitig" it must be a transformer. Of course the transformer is one of the primary components in your PSU, but not the PSU itself.
David Williams (asker) Feb 26, 2010:
Why? Why do people think that a primary failure would always result in a secondary failure. Surely the opposite is the case, since the secondary PSU is there precisely to provide a backup if the primary one fails. Obviously, there is no point in even having the secondary one if a primary failure would always result in a secondary failure.
Richard Stephen Feb 26, 2010:
Pretty sure "And" really wouldn't make much sense here - particularly in view of the discussion below, indicating that a primary failure would always result in a secondary failure.
David Williams (asker) Feb 26, 2010:
That is precisely what I suspected, but I wanted to double check, as it is an important difference here.
Richard Stephen Feb 26, 2010:
and/or I have frequently seen cases where Germans use "und" where "or" would be used in English. This appears to be just such a case.

Proposed translations

37 mins
Selected

with loss of voltage on the secondary or on the primary side

I would use "loss of voltage" as that is what is being measured. If there is a failure in the power supply then the secondary voltage may lost without losing the primary voltage. If the primary is lost, then the secondary will be lost in any case.
The way the German is written the first case wouldn't be covered which is why you need the 'or'. You really need to append a comment for the customer though.
As it is written, it is unlikely that the user will fully understand it!
Note from asker:
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a little confused by it.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
6 mins

in the event of a secondary power failure and a primary power failure

I am sure that the signal will be generaed in either case, because the secondary power will fail in both cases, i.e. if the rimary fails, there is no chance of secondary power being available.
Note from asker:
If that is the case, what is the point of having a spare PSU and claiming that the system has a redundant power supply in the first place? The point of the secondary PSU, as I understand it, is to prevent loss of power in the event of a power failure of the primary power supply.
@ Richard Stephen: But this is about power supply units, not transformers.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Stephen : When I see "primary side" and "secondary side" I immediately think of a transformer. Although a failure on the primary side would inevitable result in a failure on the secondary side, the reverse case is not true.
16 mins
neutral Paul Denisowski (X) : Just FYI : I'm very sure this has nothing to do with a transformer (i.e. something with primary and secondary windings). Besides, a failure in one of the windings would cause the entire transformer to fail. (BTW, I'm an electrical engineer by profession)
1 day 11 hrs
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1 day 11 hrs

if main or backup/secondary power is lost

I should start by saying I have a Master's in Electrical Engineering and am pretty familiar with the subject :)

I'm pretty sure what is meant here is a system with a redundant power supply : there is a main (primary) source of power and a backup (secondary) source of power that takes over if the primary supply fails. In every system I've ever seen, a failure of either power supply would be signalled by some kind of alarm (light, etc.) : you want to know if your backup supply is down, even if it's not being used.

I agree with the person commenting that this is one of those cases where German "und" is best translated as "or" in English (in the case of A and in the case of B = in the case of A or B). I would also translate Spannung as "power" instead of "voltage" because supply voltage is normally referred to (albeit imprecisely) as "power" by most people.

(I reversed the order and said "main or backup/secondary" power for purely styllistic reasons, although the other way around is fine too).

Hope that helps,

Paul
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