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Schulsportzentrum
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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Abgangszeugnis (Gymnasium) American English

English translation:

final report card (incomplete)

Added to glossary by Martina Emmerich
Jul 28, 2017 15:31
6 yrs ago
18 viewers *
German term

Abgangszeugnis (Gymnasium) American English

German to English Social Sciences Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs Gymnasialzeugnis
Wenn ein Gymnasialschüler das Gymnasium in der Oberstufe (Qualifikationsphase 1 und 2) verlässt, ohne die Abiturprüfung gemacht zu haben, wird ihm ein Abgangszeugnis erteilt (Definition).

Sollte ich hier school-leaving cetificate schreiben für Abgangszeugnis im American English? Ich habe die Befürchtung, das verwirrt und der Leser glaubt, die Schullaufbahn sei abgeschlossen. Im vorleigenden Fall ist sie abgebrochen, weil die Leistung nicht stimmte.

Was wäre also eine adäquate Übersetzung? Danke für geeignete Vorschläge.

Report card?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 final report card (incomplete)
3 +1 student withdrawal report
4 -2 Notice of withdrawal/Student withdrawal form with final report card or (un)official transcript
References
Many entries in the glossary already
fwiw, hth
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Kim Metzger, writeaway

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Discussion

Björn Vrooman Aug 1, 2017:
@Allegro No, it isn't--for all the reasons stated below (e.g., you cannot re-enter school after receiving one; it will show certain grades from previous years; it includes personal details and attendance overall). It definitely does not resemble any final report card I've seen. I've even included a picture of an "Abgangszeugnis"...

"can elaborate on the reasons why this student left school"
I explained below that we were not asking for the reason the student left school, but why he or she needs the document; this is relevant information--the reason for leaving is not (which is why I don't support "withdrawal").

Best

PS
Cf: https://www.karriereakademie.de/karriereblog/deutscher-schul...
http://www.academic-embassy.de/auslandsstudium/studium-ohne-...

He does have a "Realschulabschluss" (completed 10th grade) + "Lehre"; you don't have to sell yourself short.
Björn Vrooman Aug 1, 2017:
PS Je nachdem, was der Kunde in den USA machen will, könnte er sich auch über eine Zusatzinformation über GED oder SAT freuen (s.u.); die Schullaufbahn in Deutschland ist im eigentlichen Sinne abgeschlossen, wenn man das Gymnasium nach der Schulpflicht verlässt; der GED-Test z.B. ist definitiv schneller zu erledigen als die Externenprüfung oder das Abendgymnasium mMn.

Daneben könnte man schauen, wie das mit seiner Lehre aussieht, da es auch in den USA "(registered) apprenticeships" gibt:
https://www.dol.gov/apprenticeship

Leider habe ich nicht den Überblick, wie das mit dem erworbenen Realschulabschluss aussieht; das könnte u.U. auch reichen (wie unter der Schulsportzentrum-Frage angedeutet). Deshalb sagte ich, dass die Frage eine bessere Chance auf Beantwortung im Forum gehabt hätte wg. Erfahrungsaustausch; hier geht es ja schlicht meist darum, eine kurze Antwort zu finden und viele lesen die Diskussionsbeiträge entweder gar nicht oder nur teilweise.

Grüße
AllegroTrans Aug 1, 2017:
Why all this discussion over the fine details? there is absolutely no way the translator can elaborate on the reasons why this student left school before the final exam, nor is there any need to get obsessed with the Americcan school system here. Surely this is simply a final report card? Nothing more, nothing less.
Björn Vrooman Aug 1, 2017:
Zur Antwort:
Ich nehme an, Q1 und Q1 bezieht sich auf die zwei Halbjahre in 12:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur_in_Hessen

D.h. certificate of completion (siehe unten; https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-c... ) würde für mich wegfallen; Abi-Prüfung ist ja erst ein Jahr später. Der Vorschlag von herbalchemist wäre der für mich passendste: Final Grade Report (vergl. https://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTcvM... ). "Final Report Card" ist eine jährliche Angelegenheit, die mich nur verwirren würde, weil auf dem Abgangszeugnis noch ganz andere Noten stehen. Um einen "withdrawal" könnte es gehen, aber da wir das eben nicht wissen (und wie du sagst, auch nicht wissen müssen), halte ich die Antwort auch nicht für passend.

Im Notfall wäre hinter Final Grade Report ein Sternchen zu machen und am unteren Rand eine kurze Erkläriung zu liefern. Ich würde nicht darauf verzichten, den automatisch erworbenen Realschulabschluss zu erwähnen (positive Ergänzung).
Björn Vrooman Aug 1, 2017:
"War er lazy, ist er stupid? Vielleicht war er krank, vielleicht hatte er schlimme familiäre Verhältnisse."

Da hast du, glaube ich, sowohl mich als auch vor allem herbalchemist falsch verstanden. Bei dem "lazy" ging es darum, dass dies gerade nicht so rüberkommen soll. Ich war lediglich verwundert darüber, warum man mit einem reinen Abgangszeugnis ins Ausland möchte (wie gesagt, eine Lehre danach abzuschließen, ist schon wieder etwas anderes!) und wollte wissen, ob das für einen Job ist oder für eine Schule, da dort u.U. eine ganze Auflistung gemacht werden muss.

Ich war auch mit der angegeben Definition nicht glücklich; da entschuldige ich mich, wenn das zu barsch rübergekommen ist (es gibt nun mal viele Fragen hier ganz ohne Kontext). Ein Abgangszeugnis kann von Haupt- bis Berufsschule ausgestellt werden und es macht im Englischen einen Unterschied, ob derjenige, dann geht, ohne die Abi-Prüfung zu machen oder in der 12ten geht, während er die 13te noch vor sich hätte - auch eine Möglichkeit; da ginge aber z.B. "certificate of completion" nicht. Zumal es sowohl G8 als auch G9 gibt.
Björn Vrooman Aug 1, 2017:
Bei allem gebührenden Respekt: Im Gegensatz zu anderen Teilnehmern im Forum, die ganze Absätze einstellen oder erfragen, habe ich davon immer abgeraten. Ich habe zudem auch über die letzten Jahre genug Diskussionsbeiträge eingestellt, um ganze Bücher zu füllen und ich helfe gerne; aber weder meine geschätzten Kolllegen noch ich können das tun, wenn Grundinformationen fehlen.

Ich kenne nämlich die angesprochene Situation und habe daher die weiter unten gestellten Fragen eingeschoben. Das waren zwei ganze Fragen: welches Bundesland und aus welchem Grund wird die Übersetzung benötigt.

Die erste ist immens wichtig, weil Bildung Ländersache in Deutschland ist und man teilweise keinen Hauptschul-/Realschulabschluss nach der 10ten bekommt; man steht dann ganz ohne(!) Abschluss da. Genauso (siehe unten) ist das Aussehen des Abgangszeugnisses je nach Bundesland unterschiedlich.

Das zweite ist genauso wichtig, weil er letztlich mehr als das Abgangszeugnis braucht. Die Zusatzinformation, dass er eine Lehre abgeschlossen hat, halte ich für sehr hilfreich. Mehr brauche ich z.B. gar nicht und ich sehe auch nicht, wie das vertraulich sein sollte; das kann Millionen Leute betreffen.
Martina Emmerich (asker) Aug 1, 2017:
Lieber Björn, am besten, ich stelle demnächst die ganze Übersetzung ein. Dann wäre der Kunde aber ganz schön böse. Also: ein Schüler verlässt das Gymnasium mit Qualifikationsphase Q 1 und Q 2, bekommt dafür ein "Abgangszeugnis" - in Hessen - wie es das Gesetz vorsieht. Dann macht er eine Lehre, beendet sie und nun will er in die USA.
Warum, das geht mich alles nichts an. Was er da genau machen will, hat er nicht gesagt. Begreift ihr alle nicht, das es sich bei Dokumentenübersetzung um eine vertrauliche Angelegenheit handelt?

Ich muss mich hier nicht rechtfertigen, aber die hitztige Diskussion hat mich doch genervt. Wenn ich eine Lösung gewusst hätte für diesen Sonderfall, hätte ich nicht gefragt. Aber ich habe gefragt, weil ich eine Lösung suchte. Dafür ist so ein Forum gut. Danke für die vielen Hilfen. Warum der Schüler all das tut, g e h t m i c h ni c h t s an. War er lazy, ist er stupid? Vielleicht war er krank, vielleicht hatte er schlimme familiäre Verhältnisse. Ich halte mich da stets zurück.Wir sind hier im Bereich der Vermutung. Er hat die Schule abgebrochen, aber mit einem Zeugnis und sich dann verändert. Ich habe gefragt, weil ich für diesen Fall keine Lösung habe.
Björn Vrooman Jul 31, 2017:
"because it has the connotation of laziness or stupidity"

Don't disagree. Maybe I just cannot think of a good enough reason why a German would want to parade around the country showing everyone their "Abgangszeugnis," if you know what I mean--it's nothing to be proud of, to be perfectly blunt. And then they're trying to get into college in another country? Don't know what to think of this.

"maybe thinking from an employer's POV would be more helpful"
Yes, it would, although I think you may have misread that: The asker put the question into the "Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs" category and only wrote "Gymnasialzeugnis." There's no mention of CVs anywhere besides the category name, as far as I can see.

The two most important questions are:

1) Which federal state (this makes a whole lot of difference; "Bildungspolitik ist Ländersache," as they say here)?

2) For what purpose (job, college)?

The asker has answered neither, AFAIK. Unless there's some clarification, we should just spend our time discussing other matters (as I do find these exchanges challenging and worthwhile).

Have a nice evening!
Herbmione Granger Jul 31, 2017:
Hi Björn, Thanks for the insight... Maybe I don't like "non-high school graduate/high-school dropout," because it has the connotation of laziness or stupidity, whereas the reason could be circumstance... The Asker is indicating that this is for a CV, so maybe thinking from an employer's POV would be more helpful. "Here is a transcript with my grades even though I didn't graduate" is OK, unless a copy of the certificate/report card is being indicated. We are somewhat in the dark. Nevertheless, I think that a general definition of "Abgangszeugnis" can be agreed on.
Björn Vrooman Jul 31, 2017:
Link: https://www.spantran.com/academic-evaluation-services/is-a-f...

Further:
"To have your foreign high school diploma evaluated, you need to use a credential evaluation service. In the United States, credential evaluation is not the responsibility of a government agency. Instead, third-party credential evaluating services are hired by individuals, who submit copies of their diplomas and verified transcripts to the service."

A second opinion:
"International students usually submit transcripts when they apply for admission to a U.S. college or university. Most U.S. schools want official transcripts, which generally means that transcripts must be sent directly to the U.S. school from the foreign school or exam board."
http://www.americangraduateeducation.com/articles/en/evaluat...

Cf: https://www.spantran.com/academic-evaluation-services/choosi...

You said, "If the Asker makes clear what they need."

To me, the asker didn't. Without the transcripts, the "Zeugnis" is pretty much useless; additionally, it's not a diploma. So what's the point?

Best wishes
Björn Vrooman Jul 31, 2017:
It could be that you'd have a situation like this:
"Wer vor Beginn der Prüfung die Schule verlässt, erhält ein Abgangszeugnis nach Anlage 6. Wer die Prüfung nicht bestanden hat und die Schule verlässt, erhält ein Abgangszeugnis nach Anlage 7."
[Emphasis added]
https://www.weiterbildungsinitiative.de/fileadmin/download/v...

That'd be something similar to:
"cohort of students who finished and passed the twelfth grade, but who didn’t officially 'graduate' because they didn’t pass the exam. Instead, they get 'certificates of completion.'"
https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-c...

You may ask why I'm insisting on "transcript" besides non-HS graduate. Even in Hesse, people may get some kind of "Realschlussabschluss" or such if they dropped out in 12th grade. But:
"If you’re applying as a foreign student to a U.S. school, for instance, you have to provide proof of educational equivalency."

[last time to be continued...]
Björn Vrooman Jul 31, 2017:
Now, I'm pretty certain this is about Hesse and we're only talking about 12th grade onward (if I understand the asker correctly). This means

a) in general:
"Wer die Schule verlässt, ohne einen Abschluss zu erwerben, erhält ein Abgangszeugnis (§ 74 Abs. 4 des Hessischen Schulgesetzes)."
http://www.leb-hessen.de/fileadmin/user_upload/downloads/Rec...

In other words: You did not graduate.

b) Grades:
"Im Abschluss- und Abgangszeugnis sind neben den Fächern und Noten, die in der zuletzt besuchten Klasse erteilt wurden, auch diejenigen Fächer, die vorher nach der Stundentafel für den jeweiligen Bildungsgang abgeschlossen wurden, mit der zuletzt erteilten Note aufzunehmen."
[see above]

That's more than on a final report card.

c) "Bei Abschluss- und Abgangszeugnissen ist der Entlassungstag [...] anzusetzen."
[see above]

Ditto.

d) "Abgangs- und Übergangszeugnisse enthalten keinen Versetzungsvermerk, aber einen Vermerk über die zuletzt besuchte Jahrgangsstufe oder Klasse."

That's why.
Björn Vrooman Jul 31, 2017:
PS to your PS "A college admissions office might see a 'non-high school graduate' as a 'high school drop-out'"

And they would be right to think that. After all, "failing to many classes" is number one on the list of reasons for dropping out of high school:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-common-reasons-students-...

"One could still get a GED"
You can't, at least in Germany. There's an "Externenprüfung": https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur_für_Nichtschüler

When describing the GED, Wiki does say it'd be comparable to the above, but that's a bit insulting (sorry), e.g., the Externenprüfung in Ba-Wü is much harder than a GED.

"Abgangszeugnis" could refer to

A) a final report card before you move, accompanied by a withdrawal notice, AFAIK (in which case the answer by Thomas would be something to consider)

B) some kind of "diploma" you get when dropping out--but if you leave in the 11th grade, you may get your "Zeugnis" from the 9th! Funny, innit?
http://gymnasiumgadebusch.de/index.php?option=com_content&vi...
Herbmione Granger Jul 30, 2017:
PS Correction on my part: A transcript is not simply a grade report, and it can be compiled to be given from one school to another or to a college.

No, I don't like your suggestion. A college admissions office might see a "non-high school graduate" as a "high school drop-out," which you were not? One could still get a GED (certificate after testing) and apply for college.

I wouldn't call the Abgangszeugnis itself a transcript. A Zeugnis is a grade report or graduation certificate, designations given from the school to the pupil. A transcript is an academic history of the pupil/student. The probable best answer is in your link: "Less than High School Diploma or Credential" http://www.njarmyguard.com/ctiers/

If the Asker makes clear what they need, I don't see a reason why this shouldn't be a Kudoz question.
Björn Vrooman Jul 29, 2017:
To answer your question "Do you think these dictionaries are confuscating Abgangszeugnis with Abschlusszeugnis?"

I think so; you see, they already consider a Realschulabschluss to be a high-school diploma:
http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Realschulabschluss.html

Quite frankly, I think the asker's questions are something for the forums, not KudoZ.
Björn Vrooman Jul 29, 2017:
PS Not sure why you didn't like the addition of "(non-high school graduate)"? That's all there is to it: person did not graduate; "incomplete" and "does not meet criteria" seem a bit vague to me or could be misunderstood (incomplete transcript? which criteria?). There are numerous links to non-HS graduates on US pages, even military ones: http://www.njarmyguard.com/ctiers/

"withdrawal" is not a good solution, though, Depending on the German state in which you live, you may be able to retake a year's worth of courses "voluntarily" (but you could even do that after half a year); but if you fail again, you're out--so yes you can and will be kicked out. Your school may just be nice enough to let you know there seems to be no room for improvement before you take that step.

[Edit]An"Abgangszeugnis" has (almost) everything on it, just as Orla says. See the PDF download here ["Anlage 2f"):
http://saxsvs.de/index.php/Anlagen_der_VwV_Zeugnis

Does this look like a final report card to you? School records? "Cumulative file"? Cf:
https://www.greatschools.org/gk/articles/obtain-your-childs-...

Best wishes
Björn Vrooman Jul 29, 2017:
@herbalchemist "No transcripts in US high school."
Not sure what you mean; both links I posted are from State-side schools, one from Oklahoma, one from Alabama.

Same here (Michigan):
http://www.collegeforcreativestudies.edu/admissions/undergra...

and so on.

All three ask for "transcripts," which is why I think the whole discussion about what an "Abgangszeugnis" is called in US English is moot. If this person wants to go to a college (there are other ways in Germany to finish school later, but the asker has provided waayy too little context), he or she needs to provide a transcript:
http://blog.prepscholar.com/how-to-get-your-high-school-tran...
Herbmione Granger Jul 29, 2017:
@Björn No transcripts in US high school. Could be final report card or final grade report with "does not meet criteria" designation or something. Do you think these dictionaries are confuscating Abgangszeugnis with Abschlusszeugnis?
Björn Vrooman Jul 29, 2017:
@Allegro and Kim AFAIK, the person is a "non-high school graduate":
https://www.google.de/search?q="non high school graduat...

And he or she needs to provide any "transcript" available:
https://www.sscok.edu/Cat2'3'1adm-courses/admit/Requirem.htm...
http://www.lbwcc.edu/admissions/admission-requirements/non-h...

Can't you just call it "Transcript (Non-HS graduate)"?

Additionally, what the asker is NOT telling you is that certain German states will require you to take exams in "Gymnasium" in 10th grade. Passing these will automatically grant you a "Realschulabschluss" (I should know, I had to take them); if that's the case, you don't just omit that, IMO.

Best wishes

[Edit: Revised; sorry, there were some issues with my keyboard]
AllegroTrans Jul 28, 2017:
But is it not comprehensible to Americans? and with obvious meaning?
Kim Metzger Jul 28, 2017:
School-leaving certificate is NOT American English.

Proposed translations

+4
4 mins
Selected

final report card (incomplete)

It's not a graduation report card, but a final report card, the incomplete clarifies that he/she did not graduate
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : I've never been to America, but I think I heard this once in a Hollywood movie.
6 hrs
Oh, that's a good reference!
agree gangels (X)
9 hrs
Mercí buckets!
neutral Thomas Ackerman, MAT : Final report card=given every year at the end of the year. Just grades. Incomplete=a course was not completed, not that the student didn't graduate. I thought I was pretty clear that you need the notice AND the report to be the same as the original term.
9 hrs
Make up your mind.
agree writeaway : to counter the disagree. your answer was included in a superior answer further down -so how can it be 100% wrong?
15 hrs
Thanks, love, don't know what he's getting at.
neutral Michael Martin, MA : German term indicates the student is withdrawing. Your solution is silent on that. "Final report cards" are issued at the end of the academic year or semester. "Incomplete" = a label that's only used on transcripts for courses that are yet to be completed
1 day 11 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
1 day 22 hrs
What an upoar! So glad I finished school.
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Sicherlich ist die Lösung für Abgangszeugnis bereits hier vorhanden, betrifft aber nicht diesen Sonderfall. Ich habe mich für final report card entschieden."
+1
15 mins

student withdrawal report

You need to know that the student is withdrawing. "Final" is probably mostly used in reference to an end-of-year report

http://kids-alliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Student-...
Peer comment(s):
agree Thomas Ackerman, MAT : The example you posted is as close as it will get to find the AmE equivalent for US schools. But I've never seen a "student withdrawal report" before, only the request to withdraw (see my answer).
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
10 hrs
German term (edited): Abgangszeugnis

Notice of withdrawal/Student withdrawal form with final report card or (un)official transcript

A student that is leaving high school must give a notice of withdrawal (also known as a withdrawal form or slip) to his/her school, signed by his/her parents if he/she is not 18 years of age (in most states).

From what I've seen from German Abgangszeugnisse, this form notates that the student was enrolled for x amount of time, until when he/she withdrew from that institution. It depends on the school the child goes to what this form in the US looks like, but if you look at the reference, this is the typical format.

The big difference is that das deutsche Abgangszeugnis generally shows that current semester's grades, which is not given except for on final report cards or on the student's transcripts in the US.

Report cards show the final grades for the current semester, whereas final report cards show the final grades for the entire school year. A transcript shows every grade that the student has received during his entire time at the school. Most schools require a student's transcript to either allow him to be homeschooled or to continue at another school.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2017-07-29 02:19:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For further clarification: to my knowledge, most schools do not kick out students for poor performance, unless it is consistent (year after year), so a student would be leaving school on a voluntary basis (or if the parents wanted).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2017-07-29 13:39:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A final report card shows a student's GRADES - not that the student did not finish school
A withdrawal form is what tells the school system that the student is no longer enrolled at a school.
The difference between an Abgangszeugnis and final report card is that a final report card does not tell you that a student is no longer enrolled, whereas a notice of withdrawal is what does.
Is the difference any clearer now?
Example sentence:

My parents gave the school my withdrawal slip so I can leave school.

Do you have your child's notice of withdrawal and transcript from his last school?

Reference:

http://www.fauhigh.fau.edu/documents/Withdrawal%20Form%20and%20Procedures%20-%20rvsd.pdf

Peer comment(s):
disagree writeaway : you disagree with almost everyone yet you include final report card in your answer?
4 hrs
Because final report card just shows a student's grades, not that the student has left school. The notice of withdrawal is what is needed to show a student has left school, and the grade report shows the final grades, as in the Abgangszeugnis.
disagree Ramey Rieger (X) : Strange, truly, that you suggested final report card.
7 hrs
It's not a final report card in and of itself. The entire phrase is what it's referencing, not just the grade report. You need to know the student is leaving school, so you get the notice of withdrawal. A final report card does nothing to show withdrawal.
neutral oa_xxx (X) : Have you looked at any images of Abgangszeugnisse?They are issued by the school and contain the student's details&final grades/assessment-it is not a notice of withdrawal.
12 hrs
Agreed, but it states how long the student was enrolled at the school, as well.
neutral AllegroTrans : notice of withdrawal???
18 hrs
Because the student is withdrawing from school. He cannot continue his education there. For US schools, students generally aren't kicked out for poor performance, so the student will have to withdraw voluntarily, or else the student is expelled.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

16 mins
Reference:

Many entries in the glossary already

Please check this before posting questions.
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/education_pedagogy/1082636-abgangszeugnis.html

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree AllegroTrans
1 day 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr
Reference:

fwiw, hth

Abgangszeugnis SCHULE
high school diploma US
https://en.langenscheidt.com/german-english/abgangszeugnis

Abgangszeugnis Ab•gangs•zeug•nis nt leaving certificate (Brit) , high school diploma (US)
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Abgangszeugnis

Abgangszeugnis
neuter noun
leaving certificate (Brit), high school diploma (US)
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/german-engli...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Thomas Ackerman, MAT : We don't get leaving certificates in the US. And we don't get diplomas if we leave school early.
9 hrs
I am only posting what I found in online dictionaries. Please direct your attention to the US entries, not the UK
neutral oa_xxx (X) : I saw all these too, am rather shocked that they are all wrong! I guess they all know German better than Duden...
22 hrs
they do add to the confusion. Wonder how they all got it wrong. I usually see that kind of thing with Nl-En dicos. Maybe because Abitur is considered beyond normal US high school diploma level?
Something went wrong...
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