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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Gestaltungswert (Kunst)

English translation:

formal value (art)

Added to glossary by Lonnie Legg
Oct 9, 2009 11:45
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Gestaltungswert

German to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Art theory
Unfortunately I have little context, it is a brief description of the work of a conceptual artist: "In ihrer [Kunst] geht sie von dem Gestaltungswert aus, der in den Arbeiten von Hobbymalern entsteht," this is not really described further. The term seems to be used with some frequency in German in other contexts. Any suggestions appreciated, thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 creative value/essence
4 +3 formal value
3 the value of the design ( design value)
3 (inherent formal) potential
3 -1 the value of the shape
2 emphasis on form
3 -1 conceptual idea (value)
Change log

Oct 13, 2009 20:26: Lonnie Legg Created KOG entry

Discussion

Helen Shiner Oct 11, 2009:
Sorry to be a pain but I really do think this has more to do with shape/form - something tangible whereas creative is real lay-man's terminology. I guess - without having any context to go on - that I would translate gestalterische Freiheit as 'freedom of design', but then my primary specialism is in sculpture and I am perhaps just very sensitive to distinctions between the 2-D and 3-D. My question would be on what grounds do you think one should move away from formal, because I don't see any reason to be less specific since 'formal values' is such an established term. If it were a text aimed solely at the layman, then there would be an argument for adopting language that is more comprehensible, but any artist would make a distinction between formal and other values.
Stephen Reader Oct 11, 2009:
Sight of pics Hallo, Georg, - With Helen re. tenor of the text - and can you see the work referred to or others by your artist?
Herzlich / Stephen
Lonnie Legg Oct 11, 2009:
@Helen: "translating 'gestalterisch' as creative" How about 'gestalterische Freiheit' ("creative freedom")?
Helen Shiner Oct 11, 2009:
Lonnie Our Asker will need to determine the tenor of the text evidently. I can't really imagine ever translating 'gestalterisch' as creative when 'kreativ' exists as an alternative for the author, and I do feel Stephen's solution is perhaps reading too much into the term, but let's see - none of us can see what our Asker can see.
Lonnie Legg Oct 11, 2009:
Gestaltung(i.S.v. künstler.Ausdruck) vs.Formgebung Helen cites examples using "Gestaltungswert" as an analytical art-crit term, thus her proposal "formal values". But lacking more context, Helen, I wonder if your interpretation isn't too specific. In layman terms. "gestalten" simply means to put elements into a significant arrangement. Thus my interpretation (which may be wrong): that, here, the source term is used as a quasi-synonym of "gestalterischen Wert" (i.e. creative value).
Stephen Reader Oct 11, 2009:
*Potential*, & cf. Helen on "decorative" Feeling sceptical vis-à-vis how precise German use of "Gestaltungswert" is here. Yes the formal aspects that arise in amateur painting, but "-wert" maybe more as *potential*, power, than 'value', especially as the artist *develops what she finds* in amat. art further, in her own way, so the brief quote w'd suggest. Pics of the artist's work may help you (any online?). We could be talking "decoration" with a positive slant, cf. Helen's find below. A look at the work may point to how precisely or generally "Gestaltung" might be meant.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

creative value/essence

But in translating, I would just leave out "value".
"In her art she channels the creativity found in the works..."
(or for a freer variant: "she is inspired by")

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Note added at 4 days (2009-10-13 20:25:18 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

For my glossary entry, I have opted for the (presumably more valuable) art-criticism sense of the term.
As in: "Hopper's colours have a formal value, of some independence beyond their ..." (http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/06au...
Cf. also Helen's proposal below.
Peer comment(s):
agree Barbara Wiebking
2 hrs
Thanks, kriddl.
disagree Helen Shiner : If this is aimed at amateur artists/lay people, then possibly, but it misses the 'formal' aspect, so rather imprecise - sorry to disagree.//As far as I understand it, gestalten generally means to give something form in some way, not just to be creative.
2 hrs
I don't follow you re "imprecise"--I think rather it's a question of whether the term is being used analytically (as you seem to read it) or more philosophically (or generally, if you prefer).
agree Rolf Keiser : creative is good.
4 hrs
Thanks, Goldcoaster.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you Lonnie, thank you everyone for your suggestions! From the way I understand the text, this is the most suitable answer, though it may not apply in other situations."
-1
4 mins

the value of the shape

In her art she is going out of the value of the shape, occasionally arising in amateur paintings.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Jim Tucker (X) : (not English)
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
18 mins

the value of the design ( design value)

just an idea
Something went wrong...
25 mins

emphasis on form

or
type of composition
or
interest in shapes/forms
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : yes, this is about form, though I would prefer the use of 'values', hence not quite an agree!
1 hr
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

conceptual idea (value)

In her art she uses (starts from) the conceptual ideas of amateurs.

Basically it means she tries to work from a certain basis of naivety (naiveté).
Peer comment(s):
disagree Helen Shiner : no, it is formal values not conceptual ones
6 mins
Something went wrong...
+3
2 hrs

formal value

I believe this is what is meant

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-09 14:08:13 GMT)
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she employs the formal values of an amateur painter

But all art, in both third world and western cultural traditions, has decorative qualities, including formal values of composition and colour. The Toronto artist's phrase "mere wall decoration" indicates a lack of understanding of the fact that some art which "decorates" can also inform us with metaphor and beauty. It is not only pain that can teach us something.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles/GreggSimpson/painting_is_d...

Impressionist wave has made Whistler's work appear retrograde in comparison, another factor in Whistler's diminished standing in the public eye. In fact, Whistler's most original works, the Nocturnes, are closer in spirit to modern art than is Impressionism. The concentration in the Nocturnes on purely formal values of color and line traces a direct descent to the development of abstraction in the early twentieth-century.
http://www.glyphs.com/art/whistler/

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Note added at 7 hrs (2009-10-09 18:59:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another instance where the term is used. Here it is evident that it is the value of colour as colour itself, not what can be expressed with it that is meant by Gestaltungswert. When one speaks of such a way of looking at art or the visual of any kind, it is referred to as formalism, or a concern with the form or the formal. Hence formal values as I suggest.
Limiting its interpretation to something vague like 'creativity' or 'expression' is actually worse than vague, it is ascribing to the term a meaning in direct opposition to what is actually meant.
Nach der braun- und grautonigen Malerei des 19. Jahrhunderts entdeckten die "Brücke"-Maler Ernst Ludwig Kirchner, Erich Heckel, Karl Schmidt-Rottluff, Max Pechstein und Emil Nolde die Kraft der reinen, ungebrochenen und ungemischten Farbe. Sie befreiten die Farbe von der Aufgabe bloßer Gegenstandsbeschreibung und sahen sie als eigenständigen Ausdrucks- und Gestaltungswert. Durch die Gegenüberstellung kontrastierender Farben steigerten sie deren Intensität.
http://www.buchheimmuseum.de/cms/angebote/schulen.php
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard
1 hr
Thanks, philgoddard
neutral Lonnie Legg : Good, based on your interpretation. But perhaps "entsteht" is critical here--something brought forth as a quality of the amateur's product. In the senses you have quoted, I would think the "Gestaltungswert" would be "angewandt" or "zum Ausdruck gebracht".
4 hrs
Well, I really don't get your point - the artist's work is based on the formal values produced in the amateur work. I don't understand your sentence re 'angewandt' - applied? or 'zum Ausdruck gebracht' - give expression to? What am I missing?
agree mill2
1 day 34 mins
Thanks, mill
agree Jim Tucker (X)
1 day 1 hr
Thanks, Jim
neutral Stephen Reader : Hi, Helen. Formal *potential* rather than value despite "-wert"?
1 day 11 hrs
Hi Stephen - formal power might work, but I can't agree with formal potential, since this is found in already extant works.
Something went wrong...
1 day 14 hrs

(inherent formal) potential

See ideas at Discussion. Wie IST denn "ihre Kunst"? Depending on precision of author's use of Gestaltung, & above all on the artist's work, it could be meant more 'formally' (Helen) or (e.g.) more psychologically, re. the shaping of one's environment as well as the visual world within the picture frame (tending towards Lonnie's 'creative' in that case), though that's formal too, of course. ...creative/design/formal/compositional potential.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : No, the amateur works already exist, but I could see a case for 'formal power'. I don't really see how it is an improvement over 'value' though, which is the accepted term. Will depend on the tenor of the text.
5 hrs
Thanks, Helen; see what you mean - but meant the potential that the extant amateur works offer for use by the conceptual artist - a resource.
Something went wrong...
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