| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Please don't bid on jobs if you aren't available! Thread poster: Sandra Alboum
|
|---|
Jo Macdonald 
Spain
Local time: 15:36
Italian to English
+ ...
| Looking for lowest price, or need pro | Aug 30, 2006 |
Hi Sandra,
If you’re looking for a lot of offers to find the lowest price - dip into the bargain bag. If you want the best pro for the job - drop them a line. Personally I don’t even look at job offers posted here as most are “paying peanuts and I need it for yesterday” stylee. I do get contacted by quite a few people who want me to do a job for them though.
I agree it’s a shame the way many people don’t seem to have the common courtesy to answer a mail. Their los... See more Hi Sandra,
If you’re looking for a lot of offers to find the lowest price - dip into the bargain bag. If you want the best pro for the job - drop them a line. Personally I don’t even look at job offers posted here as most are “paying peanuts and I need it for yesterday” stylee. I do get contacted by quite a few people who want me to do a job for them though.
I agree it’s a shame the way many people don’t seem to have the common courtesy to answer a mail. Their loss though, whatever your message is about, and that goes for translators, outsourcers and anyone else who can’t be bothered to answer someone who’s taken the time to write to them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Some comments... | Aug 30, 2006 |
Sandra Alboum wrote:
I posted a job yesterday and received several good responses. Emailed them all with further questions regarding their availability, rates, etc...
What surprises me more is that the people who bidded on your job didn't include that information by default. How do people respond to job postings... do they simply write "me! me! me!" with an e-mail address attached? Surely if you want to land a job, the right thing to do would be to include the information that you'd know your potential client might require of you, right?
I generally keep in contact with potential clients (it creates a good impression), but certain things make me lose interest quickly, for example if a client writes back with what appears to be a template letter and asks for information which I had already given in the first e-mail.
| | | | sylvie malich (X)
Germany
Local time: 15:36
German to English
Sandra Alboum wrote:
Got a quote from someone in the "Heartland" who had fabulous qualifications and a price that couldn't be beat. What more could I want?! She must have bid late last night or early this morning because the bid hadn't come in when I finally turned off my machine last night, but it was there this morning when I turned it on around 8am. She said she was excited to take on this job.
I wrote her this morning at 8:05am my time, which was probably 7:05am her time. I sent her some files, my standard paperwork, and asked her to please confirm ASAP her acceptance of the work and the terms.
I still haven't heard back from her.
Am I the only one who noticed the obvious? The "someone in the Heartland" works nights ("She must have bid late last night or early this morning because ...") and hasn't yet seen your email sent at 7:05. I'll bet you'll get your response later today or tonight.
Quality takes time... (C;
sylvie
[Edited at 2006-08-30 08:32]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Don't you know for sure? | Aug 30, 2006 |
Sandra Alboum wrote:
I wrote her this morning at 8:05am my time, which was probably 7:05am her time.
You don't know for certain? Why not?
| | |
|
|
|
Sandra Alboum
United States
Local time: 09:36
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Good morning | Aug 30, 2006 |
Hi.
It's 8:30am and I am working. So much for the "not getting started until 11" thing. I used to get started earlier, but that was before it took me 30 minutes to drag myself out of bed. Being 8 months pregnant takes its toll.
I got an email from the translator I mentioned in my posting above. It came in at 1:08am my time (which *is* 12:08 am her time, so there) and she said she had just opened my email 30 minutes ago, looked at the files I sent her and can handle... See more Hi.
It's 8:30am and I am working. So much for the "not getting started until 11" thing. I used to get started earlier, but that was before it took me 30 minutes to drag myself out of bed. Being 8 months pregnant takes its toll.
I got an email from the translator I mentioned in my posting above. It came in at 1:08am my time (which *is* 12:08 am her time, so there) and she said she had just opened my email 30 minutes ago, looked at the files I sent her and can handle them with no problem, but wonders if she opened my email too late, and did I misstype the deadline? (No.) She then goes on to explain that she does not have the sofware I indicated was required to work on this project (Adobe Acrobat Professional, or as some call it, Adobe Writer) but was "thinking about getting it". Great.
What are PMs supposed to do in this situation, I ask? Here is someone who looks VERY qualified for the job on paper, who quotes a good rate (and please note that I am NOT paying peanuts here) that is within my budget, and says she is available. When I ask her to do the work, she disappears, reappears about 24 hours later, asks if the deadline is really so, and then says she doesn't have the required tools to do the job.
I know well enough that most outsourcers don't respond to all the people who quote on their jobs. It's a very bad habit and bad practice all around. But this is clearly the flip side of the coin... and it's just as bad.
For the record, I did find other people to do the work, at a comfortable rate (NOT PEANUTS! NO MONKEYS!), and who have already begun the process of partial deliveries.
[Edited at 2006-08-30 12:40] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | On peanuts and professionalism | Aug 30, 2006 |
Hi all,
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Hi Sandra,
If you’re looking for a lot of offers to find the lowest price - dip into the bargain bag. If you want the best pro for the job - drop them a line. Personally I don’t even look at job offers posted here as most are “paying peanuts and I need it for yesterday” stylee.
Jo, I'm sure you didn't mean this to sound mean, but it somehow does, I'm sorry to say. I don't know Sandra personally, but I've checked her as an outsourcer in the BB and I do know some of the people who collaborate or have collaborated with her and I can assure you that -for everybody's credit- they are not to be found in any bargain bag. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about whistleblowing when it comes to outsourcers that want to pay sweatshop rates. Just because of that, I like to check if that is the case, and it does not seem so with Sandra.
Sandra Alboum wrote:
What are PMs supposed to do in this situation, I ask? Here is someone who looks VERY qualified for the job on paper, who quotes a good rate (and please note that I am NOT paying peanuts here) that is within my budget, and says she is available. When I ask her to do the work, she disappears, reappears about 24 hours later, asks if the deadline is really so, and then says she doesn't have the required tools to do the job.
I know well enough that most outsourcers don't respond to all the people who quote on their jobs. It's a very bad habit and bad practice all around. But this is clearly the flip side of the coin... and it's just as bad.
Hi sandra.
I agree this is just as bad. As for what are PMs supposed to do... Personally I think that professionalism is not just about delivering a good translation, so I'd do what you eventually did: find somebody else to do the job. Not much so because of the 24h thing, which is annoying but maybe justifiable (illness, massive internet crash...), but mainly for the deadline and the software thing, that's childish.
Oh, well, my 2 cents.
Regards,
Jerónimo
| | | | | Still do not understand | Aug 30, 2006 |
Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:
Hi Fernando,
Often they do not want the job, and sometimes they are discourteous about it. But, above all, they make such offers as "EUR 0.15/0.16 per word with immediate payment upon delivery".
You make the conditions, I suppose you have deal a proyect with clear conditions with your client, you know exactly how much you can pay to the translator.
Well, just send a group-mail to the 20 Translators you consider the best for this proyect with all information and conditions, for sure at least a few will reponse and contact you.
There is nothing to deal with a translator, you can pay XX $ and he/she has to take it or not.
All other "games" like
for how much could you...
which is your best rate ...
are poo-poo
I am speaking of outsources with a clear project confirmed with all conditions.
Another story are direct clients, there we have to deal sometimes cause it is still a open project, but outsources they know exactly which marge correspond to the translator, each tentative to reduce this fee, used for the calculation with the client, is dishonest.
They should take a look at eBay...
Regards
Fernando
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| On required software... | Aug 30, 2006 |
Sandra Alboum wrote:
When I ask her to do the work, she disappears, reappears about 24 hours later, asks if the deadline is really so, and then says she doesn't have the required tools to do the job.
She probably didn't notice the software requirement in the job posting. Or perhaps she thought that she had it and discovered that she didn't.
It still amazes me that translators can bid for a job or claim to be available for a job, but not read the requirements carefully (and this includes required software), or think the format requirements aren't really requirements but mere preferences, and that it's always okay to "deliver the translation in MS Word".
The fact that she doublechecks the deadline is a good thing, though.
| | |
|
|
|
| as far as I know | Aug 30, 2006 |
no serious or professional (and with this I also mean able to conduct the business in a professional way, not just the translation side of it ) translator bids for jobs on ProZ.com. I'm not surprised you get what you get...
Giovanni
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 09:36
German to English
| Amateur show | Aug 30, 2006 |
I'm convinced that the Internet and related low barriers to entry have caused a decline in professionalism in our line of work. Anyone with a computer and an Internet connection can claim to be a "translator." (I used to believe that ownership of a dictionary was a prerequisite, but this is no longer the case as evidenced by Kudoz). Common courtesy seems also to have fallen victim to the informality of Internet communication.
I don't think it is unreasonable for a potential clien... See more I'm convinced that the Internet and related low barriers to entry have caused a decline in professionalism in our line of work. Anyone with a computer and an Internet connection can claim to be a "translator." (I used to believe that ownership of a dictionary was a prerequisite, but this is no longer the case as evidenced by Kudoz). Common courtesy seems also to have fallen victim to the informality of Internet communication.
I don't think it is unreasonable for a potential client to expect a response to a follow-up to a bidder within an hour or two if the bidder lives in the same or adjacent time zone, assuming the client's query went out during normal business hours. If a translator knows that a client is expecting a response, professional courtesy requires that the translator be prepared to make that response. Again, I'm referring to follow-up queries, not offers out of the blue.
On the other hand , some clients don't understand time zone differences. I've been scolded a few times by overseas agencies, who after sending out an urgent inquiry at 9:00 a.m. their time -- 3:00 a.m. my time -- are frustrated that I haven't responded until after lunch their time.
The other issue is that a translator should not take on a job if she/he doesn't have the tools to translate the project. Almost every week the various fora feature queries to the effect that the would-be translator has been offered a job requiring XXX software for translating YYY format files, ending with the inevitable questions "What is XXX software and what are YYY files?" Professionalism would dictate that a translator should not take a job if she/he translator doesn't understand the nature/scope of the job or have the proper tools. (not that I haven't bought software for a specific job, but I knew what I was doing and used the job as an excuse to make the purchase).
Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the situation is likely to improve in the foreseeable future.
[Edited at 2006-08-31 13:02] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sandra Alboum
United States
Local time: 09:36
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Sorry you think that way... | Aug 30, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
no serious or professional (and with this I also mean able to conduct the business in a professional way, not just the translation side of it ) translator bids for jobs on ProZ.com. I'm not surprised you get what you get...
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni,
That's quite a blanket statement there and I'm sorry you think that way. I've gotten some very valuable clients off of ProZ.com for myself personally, so I am not so quick to discount the whole job posting thing as worthless.
Regards,
Sandra
| | | | Yolande Haneder (X)
Local time: 15:36
German to French
+ ...
| don't quite agree | Aug 30, 2006 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
no serious or professional (and with this I also mean able to conduct the business in a professional way, not just the translation side of it ) translator bids for jobs on ProZ.com. I'm not surprised you get what you get...
Giovanni
I don't agree with you on this point. I had some VERY professional translators bidding on proz (or sending an e-mail to me after a quote request).
I quite understand Sandra, I know how it is. Sometimes it even go further about translators not responding. I started to educated my clients to give me enough time, if it is ready earlier, then I send it earlier but I don't coun't time of translators (otherwise sounding very professional) telling me just before the deadline that they couldn't work on the document.
In this case it doesn't help much running after that translator. Make the best possible out of it that the client doesn't suffer from it.
It had been said, being a PM is jungling with unpredictable things (as towards technical problems on the files, unexpected events from the side of the translators) to give the file at the deadline so that the end client doesn't loose sleep. That's why we are paid for - to get all the trouble.
| | |
|
|
|
| points of view | Aug 30, 2006 |
Sandra Alboum wrote:
Hi Giovanni,
That's quite a blanket statement there and I'm sorry you think that way. I've gotten some very valuable clients off of ProZ.com for myself personally, so I am not so quick to discount the whole job posting thing as worthless.
Regards,
Sandra
I did say 'as far as I know'... . Personally, I don't know anybody. I stopped bidding ages ago because of the ridicolous rates offered and agencies trying to impose 'their rates' on me.
I'm glad the system is working for you, though, or at least sometimes...
Giovanni
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 15:36
Italian to English
+ ...
| Definitely not supposed to be mean | Aug 30, 2006 |
Thanks for pointing that out Jerónimo. Mean me? God forbid, there’s too much of that in the world already.
Sandra and team I’m sorry if that came across wrong, it definitely wasn't supposed to be mean or referring to you lot in particular, but to jobs I've seen on here and a bit of recent experience with outsourcers.
I appreciate it must be hard to find a valid collaborator, but believe me the other side of the coin can be just as frustrating.
Recentl... See more Thanks for pointing that out Jerónimo. Mean me? God forbid, there’s too much of that in the world already.
Sandra and team I’m sorry if that came across wrong, it definitely wasn't supposed to be mean or referring to you lot in particular, but to jobs I've seen on here and a bit of recent experience with outsourcers.
I appreciate it must be hard to find a valid collaborator, but believe me the other side of the coin can be just as frustrating.
Recently I've been:
Sent chain mail first-come-first-served style
Asked to do short job minus outsourcer's intercontinental bank fees
Asked to sign contract that reads, "translator has no rights over anything at all whatsoever, I kid you not."
I still think you're better off contacting someone directly for a job; it's much simpler and nicer for both:
got job - find pro - job done
or
got potential job - send chain mail - wade through zillions of autoreplies and my spam filter's bust too - send tests - ask for rates - wait for tests to come back - ask for rates again - send S&M contract - look for cheaper offer - try to knock pro down - that don't work - try to pull one over anyway just to let them know who's boss - no answer - what a bloody cheek - maybe they're asleep - too late - almost lost job - have to go for cheapo option - client don't like it - shoulda found a pro
Again not in any way referring to Sandra & Co. or anyone else in particular.
Glad to hear you got it sorted btw. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Manuel Rossetti (X)
Local time: 14:36
I prefer to work for agencies in the United States because then I feel the risk of not getting paid is not as big as oversees because at least here we have collection agencies, Better Business Bureau and it's considerably cheaper to contact the agency.
It sure would be nice if agencies would select a group of translators specialized for that specific task and language pair. Also, I find it very insulting that there are agencies that send attachments to be translated for free as a ... See more I prefer to work for agencies in the United States because then I feel the risk of not getting paid is not as big as oversees because at least here we have collection agencies, Better Business Bureau and it's considerably cheaper to contact the agency.
It sure would be nice if agencies would select a group of translators specialized for that specific task and language pair. Also, I find it very insulting that there are agencies that send attachments to be translated for free as a test. What's the point when that agency posts many many jobs on the job boards? What's the chance of you getting a job and actually keeping business with that agency.
I totally understand the frustration on the translator side and at the same time can totally relate to the business side of it as well as far as contacting people to do work and they're unreliable. If the worker was a 'regular' of the agency, I see little excuse for the translator not to be available. However, agencies (not all) see people as 'a dime a dozen' and some are very rude and arrogant about it as well as are translators requesting work and not at all pulling their part and respecting the importance and responsibility of the work.
As far as emergencies, power going out, the high speed internet being temporarily out- these things are beyond one's control.
I contact agencies by phone- which I like to do- i like to talk, if they have toll free numbers. Otherwise, my telephone card is reserved for my family in the east coast and in Spain.
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out Jerónimo. Mean me? God forbid, there’s too much of that in the world already.
Sandra and team I’m sorry if that came across wrong, it definitely wasn't supposed to be mean or referring to you lot in particular, but to jobs I've seen on here and a bit of recent experience with outsourcers.
I appreciate it must be hard to find a valid collaborator, but believe me the other side of the coin can be just as frustrating.
Recently I've been:
Sent chain mail first-come-first-served style
Asked to do short job minus outsourcer's intercontinental bank fees
Asked to sign contract that reads, "translator has no rights over anything at all whatsoever, I kid you not."
I still think you're better off contacting someone directly for a job; it's much simpler and nicer for both:
got job - find pro - job done
or
got potential job - send chain mail - wade through zillions of autoreplies and my spam filter's bust too - send tests - ask for rates - wait for tests to come back - ask for rates again - send S&M contract - look for cheaper offer - try to knock pro down - that don't work - try to pull one over anyway just to let them know who's boss - no answer - what a bloody cheek - maybe they're asleep - too late - almost lost job - have to go for cheapo option - client don't like it - shoulda found a pro
Again not in any way referring to Sandra & Co. or anyone else in particular.
Glad to hear you got it sorted btw.
▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Please don't bid on jobs if you aren't available! | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
