| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | Why are Indian translation companies so complicate? विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: Miguel Jimenez
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Ralf Lemster 
जर्मनी
Local time: 22:22
अंग्रेजी से जर्मन
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| Beware of generalisations | Mar 16, 2008 |
Hi all,
It's a sad truth that there are numerous outsourcers and/or intermediaries whose business conduct is improper, or even fraudulent. Having said that, I would not attribute this to intermediaries in general, or to outsourcers in a particular country and region.
Problematic outsourcers are distributed across all jurisdictions - IOW you have to be careful regardless of your (potential) customer's location. What is more revelant, in my view, is the ability (or lack of it) ... See more Hi all,
It's a sad truth that there are numerous outsourcers and/or intermediaries whose business conduct is improper, or even fraudulent. Having said that, I would not attribute this to intermediaries in general, or to outsourcers in a particular country and region.
Problematic outsourcers are distributed across all jurisdictions - IOW you have to be careful regardless of your (potential) customer's location. What is more revelant, in my view, is the ability (or lack of it) to enforce a claim in the customer's jurisdiction.
Best regards,
Ralf ▲ Collapse
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Ralf Lemster wrote:
What is more revelant, in my view, is the ability (or lack of it) to enforce a claim in the customer's jurisdiction.
There are bad payers in every jurisdiction.
One should always weigh up the chances of recovery if things go wrong.
It is a known fact (among lawyers, at least) that the wheels of justice turn particularly slowly in India.
Not just India - obviously - but an unfortunate fact all the same.
That, coupled with the normally lower rates, just don't make it an attractive proposition for many translators.
Personally, I regard anything outside the EU as an unnecessary business risk/unattractive business proposition, but am fortunate to have a strong enough client base to be able to adopt that attitude.
Budding translators often don't and then an Indian agency with a strong BB record may well be worth looking at for smaller projects. The impression that they are all out to dupe translators is certainly untrue and unfair.
Bottom line: don't give credit for an amount exceeding what you really can't afford to write off, wherever an outsourcer is based. Start small and determine the outsourcer's track record for yourself before taking on larger projects from anywhere.
[Edited at 2008-03-17 09:46]
| | | | wonita (X)
चीन
Local time: 18:22
| Order, deliver, pay upon invoice | Mar 17, 2008 |
As far as I know, this service is not provided to average residents in India. You have to meet certain criterien to be able to pay upon delivery. The same is true with the Indian outsourcers.
[Edited at 2008-03-17 11:57]
| | | | MariusV
लिथुएनिया
Local time: 23:22
अंग्रेजी से लिथुआनी
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| I agree with Ralf, but... | Mar 18, 2008 |
I fully agree that it is really a little bit unfair to say that "Indian companies" and it is not good to speak in generalizations. There are good agencies, there are bad agencies. But the real experience is that the MAJORITY of the companies from India (not ALL of them - worked for a couple of decent ones) behave just 1:1 as Miguel described - it is not a generalization, but more like a tendency where a good and fair agecy from India is more like an exception to the rule. Some of them are really... See more I fully agree that it is really a little bit unfair to say that "Indian companies" and it is not good to speak in generalizations. There are good agencies, there are bad agencies. But the real experience is that the MAJORITY of the companies from India (not ALL of them - worked for a couple of decent ones) behave just 1:1 as Miguel described - it is not a generalization, but more like a tendency where a good and fair agecy from India is more like an exception to the rule. Some of them are really crazy - say your usual rate is 0,10, they offer you a job for 0,03. You tell them sorry, guys, can take it for 0,08-0,09, but not for 3 times less. And it took 6 or 7 times to write to one agency the same - they returned and again begged to do the job for 0,03. What is worse - there are many jobs going around on proz and other sites where no one wants to take these jobs just because for monkey nuts instead of payment, or some crazy deadlines. And when those jobs are posted and reposted anywhere where it is possible, then you might expect, in a day or so, to receive same job for 50 of the rate from India. Moreover, they offer some language pairs I have never met a person in 12 years for that.
I think this issue should be discussed, being polite, but critical, especially having in mind decent agencies from India as it harms their "generalized reputation" too as they go into the same "package" as those agencies who cannot pay 50 USD in a year or so. ▲ Collapse
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Roy Chaudhuri S
भारत
Local time: 02:52
सदस्य (2006)
अंग्रेजी से बंगाली
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SITE LOCALIZER | A few points | Mar 18, 2008 |
I am an Indian translator and have a lot of experience working for Indian agencies. I do not think the default rate is not just restricted to Indian agencies than.I have seen agencies from Egypt and Russia with very poor payment records.
I wish to make the following points
1. There is no point cribbing about rates. No one forces a translator to accept jobs at a low rate. And if you are forced to do it, then your original rate is higher than the market rates, so you nee... See more I am an Indian translator and have a lot of experience working for Indian agencies. I do not think the default rate is not just restricted to Indian agencies than.I have seen agencies from Egypt and Russia with very poor payment records.
I wish to make the following points
1. There is no point cribbing about rates. No one forces a translator to accept jobs at a low rate. And if you are forced to do it, then your original rate is higher than the market rates, so you need to find some clients who pay higher for your expertise.
2. Yes, it is true that quite a bit of the work done by Indian agencies are re-outsourced work from agencies mostly from US and UK. I know that agencies from UK have opened offices in India to get the cost advantage from India. As long as the jobs delivered at these rates passes the quality standards of the clients, this will continue. This is similar to the software stories where millions of jobs in US has got "Bangalored". And this is going to go on.
3. Regarding non-payment as one of the earlier posts have pointed out, ProZ has a great Blue Board, and I (even from India) do not take up jobs without looking at the blue board. As someone has said above, if we are not comfortabledealing with an agency (or country) we should not do so. And please report each errant agency to the Blue Board religiously as it benefits thousand other fellow brethren.
Cheers
Roy ▲ Collapse
| | | | CFK TRAD
फ्रांस
Local time: 22:22
अंग्रेजी से फ्रांसीसी
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| Never had any problem... | Mar 18, 2008 |
Hi everybody,
I have read carefully your comments, and, truly, I'm afraid that we have not had the same experiences at all.
I'm French, I work in France, and among the agencies I work with, I count two agencies from India.
I could not say that the rate is "specifically" low : it's not lower than what's offered by one of my British outsourcers, for example. The problem is rather the change rate between Euro and USD... at least in Europe.
I have ... See more Hi everybody,
I have read carefully your comments, and, truly, I'm afraid that we have not had the same experiences at all.
I'm French, I work in France, and among the agencies I work with, I count two agencies from India.
I could not say that the rate is "specifically" low : it's not lower than what's offered by one of my British outsourcers, for example. The problem is rather the change rate between Euro and USD... at least in Europe.
I have never had any kind of feedback such as "the quality of the translation is bad" or anything like this.
One of the agencies I work with even called me twice because they had not received my invoice, and wanted my bank details to pay me quickly. And they did !
When I compare to an agency from Luxembourg, which takes around 3 months to pay... I cannot say that jobs from India should be disregarded.
However, I have to admit that as I'm specialised, maybe this can play a role...
But, honestly, even if the rates are lower than those of SOME European agencies (some even ask you to work for 0.04 USD p.word in legal matters), I cannot say that the Indian agencies I work with are bad payers.
Best regards.
CFK ▲ Collapse
| | | | MariusV
लिथुएनिया
Local time: 23:22
अंग्रेजी से लिथुआनी
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| small rates versus low rates | Mar 19, 2008 |
Roy Chaudhuri wrote:
I am an Indian translator and have a lot of experience working for Indian agencies. I do not think the default rate is not just restricted to Indian agencies than.I have seen agencies from Egypt and Russia with very poor payment records.
I wish to make the following points
1. There is no point cribbing about rates. No one forces a translator to accept jobs at a low rate. And if you are forced to do it, then your original rate is higher than the market rates, so you need to find some clients who pay higher for your expertise.
2. Yes, it is true that quite a bit of the work done by Indian agencies are re-outsourced work from agencies mostly from US and UK. I know that agencies from UK have opened offices in India to get the cost advantage from India. As long as the jobs delivered at these rates passes the quality standards of the clients, this will continue. This is similar to the software stories where millions of jobs in US has got "Bangalored". And this is going to go on.
3. Regarding non-payment as one of the earlier posts have pointed out, ProZ has a great Blue Board, and I (even from India) do not take up jobs without looking at the blue board. As someone has said above, if we are not comfortabledealing with an agency (or country) we should not do so. And please report each errant agency to the Blue Board religiously as it benefits thousand other fellow brethren.
Cheers
Roy
Dear Roy,
I fully understand what you wanted to say. But, in my opinion, the issue is a little bit different. There are professionals and decent people in any area as well as scams too. Translation business is not an exception. And, I think, that the main "matter of the issue" is that the ratio of professionals and scams in India is much bigger for the "benefit" of scams. Same with rates - a normal thing that the client wants to have it cheaper, and the vendor wants to have more and all is on the final decision of the parties (no one forces to work for the rate you do not want to accept). But, again, there are things like low(er) rates and unreasonably/crazy low rates. A job is posted for a really small rate, no one from the "direct freelancers" even bothers to work for it, and soon there is an attack for "super jobs" for half or even less of that already non-acceptable rate. And, yes, these works are re-(re-)outsourced - not picked from the streets of Mumbai.
Of course, you might say again - simply ignore these emails/proposals, there is a "Delete" button. But what I wanted to say - all this forms kind of a negative image of ALL agencies in India. Now, if I see that an agency is from India, I do not trust anything from India based on my negative experience. And it puts you, a decent person, maybe, a repsesentative of a decent and of a reputable agency, into the same negative approach context. And I am sure you don't quite deserve that.
[Edited at 2008-03-19 02:29]
| | | | lillkakan
Local time: 22:22
अंग्रेजी से स्वीडी
| Bad experiences | Mar 20, 2008 |
I have cut both the Indian agencies I was in touch with when I first started (it seems most who work for Indian agencies are beginners?)
The first one (one of my very first clients at all) took 6 months to pay, after numerous reminder emails. The second one offered me work at 0.05 USD per word, all jobs were in a hurry (we're talking hours, not days) and the PM constantly kept badgering me on MSN, phone etc.. (if it's such a rush then give me time to work would you??). I've since bl... See more I have cut both the Indian agencies I was in touch with when I first started (it seems most who work for Indian agencies are beginners?)
The first one (one of my very first clients at all) took 6 months to pay, after numerous reminder emails. The second one offered me work at 0.05 USD per word, all jobs were in a hurry (we're talking hours, not days) and the PM constantly kept badgering me on MSN, phone etc.. (if it's such a rush then give me time to work would you??). I've since blocked them on MSN and don't answer their requests ("Do you do Russian to English?" - when they know perfectly well my language combos. It seems they think any European language is the same...)
Nowadays, I keep getting direct emails sent from my profile from an agency in India, asking me to translate for a whooping .... 0.04 USD per word. I take that as an insult. After kindly replying three times that the rate was too low (samplifying that I normally get at least 0.10 EUR per word) I now delete these emails on sight.
So,
1) I don't like to generalise, but as far as my own experience goes, Indian agencies are iffy to work with and I have yet to encounter one that is up to my standards.
2) I feel sorry for those serious, competent agencies from India which have to suffer from their "colleagues'" bad business practices and the generalised bad reputation for Indian agencies.
and
3) I'm outright apalled hearing that some of these jobs come re-re-outsourced from reputable (?) agencies in Europe and USA, trying to cash in on the globalisation! Obviously they see only to the price and not the quality of the text. (Which is why my friends complain about their incomprehensible DVD player and MP3 player manuals that might as well have been machine translated = what you get for 0.03 USD/word)
Last I checked there were few to no native Swedish translators in India....... ▲ Collapse
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Paul Lambert
स्वीडन
Local time: 22:22
स्वीडी से अंग्रेजी
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| An insane excuse | Jun 14, 2008 |
casey wrote:
Granted, I have never had such an experience, but it alarms me that so many agencies think it is acceptable to not pay simply because the end client does not pay. That means they have no in-house quality control in place, so their translators do not get paid if the end client does not pay, regardless of the merit of the claim. If I saw those words in a response on the Blue Board I'd run in the other direction.
I have received that excuse a couple of times and it is not specific to any one country by any means. "Can't pay until the client pays" indeed! In that case, I might as well have sold the translation directly to the client at a much higher markup. Can I in turn tell my landlord "I can't pay until my translation agency pays"?
| | | | | We are 2nd Class creditors | Jun 20, 2008 |
I have heard this "can not pay you 'cause they don't pay me" excuse too many times. Well, they don't pay the translator but I am pretty sure they do pay the office rent, the power bill and the phone/ISP bill. Why this difference? Because we are second class creditors. Try not paying the power bill and let me know what happens...
This answer can only mean two things: 1) they are quite brazen people, or 2) they don't know how to run a business. Any bank can provide many services to av... See more I have heard this "can not pay you 'cause they don't pay me" excuse too many times. Well, they don't pay the translator but I am pretty sure they do pay the office rent, the power bill and the phone/ISP bill. Why this difference? Because we are second class creditors. Try not paying the power bill and let me know what happens...
This answer can only mean two things: 1) they are quite brazen people, or 2) they don't know how to run a business. Any bank can provide many services to avoid such situations. They would have to pay the bank for such finantial tools, of course, and I am sure they already use these services to pay the aforementioned bills (rent, power, phone. etc.).
Best regards, ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Lambert
स्वीडन
Local time: 22:22
स्वीडी से अंग्रेजी
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| Become a first class creditor | Jun 20, 2008 |
My thoughts exactly, Roberto.
Once more, I think the solution is to sell all your bills to a billing company. It is really the only positive way to put some real muscle behind your invoice.
| | | | | That's why I decided never to work for Indian companies | Jan 24, 2013 |
Simply as that: they are paying you peanuts and believe they are doing a favor to you by paying you "something" for a job that "is easy". So, it's all set: no work for Indian companies at all!
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jaymin
कनाडा
Local time: 17:22
जर्मन से कोरियाई
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| how many agencies are there in India? | Jul 19, 2013 |
I'm just surprised to hear that translators are working with Indian agencies. Basically most of the companies don't have reliable ISPs and many of them just want money, even in other sectors (e.g. customer services for HP, Dell, etc)
No payment is a very natural business practice in its culture.
one more note, "Blue Board" doesn't allow 'negative' comments and low ratings. BlueBoard is just another platform for Proz's advertisement.
stay out of the trouble, all transla... See more I'm just surprised to hear that translators are working with Indian agencies. Basically most of the companies don't have reliable ISPs and many of them just want money, even in other sectors (e.g. customer services for HP, Dell, etc)
No payment is a very natural business practice in its culture.
one more note, "Blue Board" doesn't allow 'negative' comments and low ratings. BlueBoard is just another platform for Proz's advertisement.
stay out of the trouble, all translators.
cheers, ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 16:22
सदस्य (2008)
क्रोशियाई से अंग्रेजी
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jaymin wrote:
"Blue Board" doesn't allow 'negative' comments and low ratings. BlueBoard is just another platform for Proz's advertisement.
What do you base that opinion on?
| | | | MariusV
लिथुएनिया
Local time: 23:22
अंग्रेजी से लिथुआनी
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After all recent "tendencies" in real practice with the agencies from India, I made for myself very simple rules on that issue:
1. Never ever ever work (again) for an agency from India.
2. Do not even waste time responding to their crazy proposals - they won't be able to pay your usual rate (if they pay at all).
3. Make no exceptions to Rule 1 and Rule 2.
| | | | | विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Why are Indian translation companies so complicate? | Protemos translation business management system |
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