| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | Long term client putting pressure on rate विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: Thomas Rebotier
|
|---|
Instead of accepting lower rates, I think it's time to launch a major marketing campaign and get some new clients. There are hundreds and hundreds of agencies out there who need good translators to stay in business, so there is absolutely no need to give in to this pressure. Say no, and if it results in less work use the time to work on your business and maybe move into better paying market sectors (e.g. better paying agencies, direct clients).
| | | | | You'd do what? | Dec 9, 2015 |
Thomas Rebotier wrote:
I have given them 5 stars on blue board and will again.
You'd do what? You would give a "willingness to work again" of the highest possible score despite the fact they're trying to impose a 12.% rate cut, and you've come on here to complain about it? I see. Something does not add up.
To Charlie: I don't think that would be an option. Besides, MT is actually counterproductive at this point for me. I work faster producing my own than "fixing" bad sentences...
Radian got the point - the key thing is to ask the question. Bet you €100 they say "no". If they do say "yes", then you know the quality of people you're dealing with, because there is no way they could properly answer "yes".
(Obviously, if you win the bet, I'll only pay you €87.50, safe in the knowledge that your "willingness to bet again" with me would be a solid 5 out of 5  )
| | | |
It seems like you have three options:
Agree to work for them at 0.08 EUR/ word, get plenty of work from them for the time being AND actively acquire new clients at 0.10 EUR (or more), while treating them as a "non-preferred" client = large volumes taken on only with generous deadlines and no hesitation to turn down work when it doesn't fit in your schedule AND gradually phase them out of your client base.
Insist on your rate of 0.09 EUR/ word and see what happens (explain that they a... See more It seems like you have three options:
Agree to work for them at 0.08 EUR/ word, get plenty of work from them for the time being AND actively acquire new clients at 0.10 EUR (or more), while treating them as a "non-preferred" client = large volumes taken on only with generous deadlines and no hesitation to turn down work when it doesn't fit in your schedule AND gradually phase them out of your client base.
Insist on your rate of 0.09 EUR/ word and see what happens (explain that they are already paying a reduced rate as a long-term client and it makes no sense for you financially to work at an even lower rate).
Offer to work with them at 0.10 EUR as a preferred client and see what happens, i. e., as a well-liked and established client matching the highest rate paid by any others = you will really go the extra mile for them when they need it.
It all depends on your financial situation and your justified expectations for acquiring new clients: If you need the money, take the cut. If you can get by in the medium term without the money, then refuse it.
Personally I like option C (Sorry, this isn't the best timing, but I needed to get back to you about adjusting my rates anyway ... I enjoy working with you and would like to continue our long-term relationship, but at this point the only way to do so is to adjust my rate so that it corresponds to my rate for other clients ... I understand that this will move me down the list of preferred translators, but whenever push comes to shove, I would love to still be there for you, etc. ...).
Option B may sound reasonable, but ultimately it means a situation that no one is happy with (= bad compromise).
And I would say that agencies lowering their rates to increase their business is a very bad business strategy = 0.08 EUR per word is way too expensive to compete with MT and I would also think that it is very hard to consistently maintain a sizeable group of good translators in a variety of language combinations and subject fields for EN>FR. They seem to have selected Option B = half-heartedly and ineffectively competing at the level of price while developing real difficulties for themselves at the level of consistently finding quality. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
You say they have been loosing customers, working with MT probably selling their products more cheaply and probably using cheaper translators. Somehow this sounds as if they were on a downward spiral already and cheaper translators and MT is not the solution, but quite the opposite.
If I would really rely on them I would maybe try to get the best rate I can, but work less for them, not more, and try and find some other clients.
| | |
|
|
|
Vadim Kadyrov 
युक्रेन
Local time: 14:02
सदस्य (2011)
अंग्रेजी से रूसी
+ ...
| Thomas, it is your blessing in disguise. | Dec 9, 2015 |
In other words, you are being given a chance to reduce your dependency on that client. Perfect! More time to look for new clients with more attractive rates.
| | | | Vadim Kadyrov
युक्रेन
Local time: 14:02
सदस्य (2011)
अंग्रेजी से रूसी
+ ...
| Imagine a funnel for your business | Dec 9, 2015 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
Putting myself in your shoes, I know that I'd object (obviously), start hunting really hard for alternative sources of work, and meanwhile, yes, if they refused my objection, I'd probably cherry pick "easier" work at 12.5% less than I was earning before.
This funnel should be filled with new leads (sorry for this marketing mumbo-jumbo) every day, if you like.
It doesn't matter how many clients you have, or how many generous clients you have. One day, if doing nothing, they will disappear one by one eventually (some will go bankrupt, some will find other industries, etc.). Which means you have to always be on the hunt for new ones.
And yes, it is much better to do this while having a certain (though bad) source of income.
| | | | | Blessing in disguise | Dec 9, 2015 |
Vadim Kadyrov wrote:
In other words, you are being given a chance to reduce your dependency on that client. Perfect! More time to look for new clients with more attractive rates.
Yes, before they go bankrupt and leave you with unpaid invoices
| | | | | We should not be competing with MT, we should be differentiating the market | Dec 9, 2015 |
If Charlie's tactic of threatening to use MT is not an option (i.e. you might have to carry out your threat and you don't want to), then you have to make it clear that you are not competing with MT and what you offer is better, at least in some situations.
So why are they not differentiating between areas where MT is adequate, and using MT where it is good enough, while marketing human quality as quality?
There ARE occasions when 'gisting' or MT is fine for the purpose, and th... See more If Charlie's tactic of threatening to use MT is not an option (i.e. you might have to carry out your threat and you don't want to), then you have to make it clear that you are not competing with MT and what you offer is better, at least in some situations.
So why are they not differentiating between areas where MT is adequate, and using MT where it is good enough, while marketing human quality as quality?
There ARE occasions when 'gisting' or MT is fine for the purpose, and the texts may never be read anyway. So saving money makes sense.
Then the qualified human translators have time to concentrate on the work where quality IS required.
I would give the client a 3 or 4 on the BB and say why, or that people could mail you for details. I have done that with two or three clients who have deteriorated over time, after giving them a 5 the first time round. The 5-rating is for the very best, not just anyone who hands out the peanuts on time. Certainly not for a client who bites the hand that feeds them by reducing rates after long and faithful service!
[Edited at 2015-12-09 19:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| The answer seems clear | Dec 9, 2015 |
Thomas Rebotier wrote:
To Tomas: You have an interesting point by saying an agency lowering rates is on the way out and one that I actually want to explore, although I have no clue how. I would rather have thought they were proactive or even maybe trying to grow. It's clear that if I knew their price structure and the trend in their business it would help my decision. I am wondering if I should ask outright.
So are you suggesting to ask them directly whether they are in trouble? Personally I would not ask: an agency that starts squeezing us for a lower rate is probably not selling very much, and my stance is that they will be on more trouble if they do not defend their quality and rates.
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 13:02
सदस्य (2008)
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
| Kick them to the curb | Dec 9, 2015 |
So it's a long term client -- have yuo increased the rate over all those years on a regular basis? - probably not... more likely you're still working for them for the same rate you agreed on many years ago...
They are losing money because their prices are too high .. and their clients have gone elsewhere - - and WHAT would real them back in ?? lower prices ?? What do you think these other agencies will propose?? Yes, the run to the bottom!....
(it's not the QUALITY of their ... See more So it's a long term client -- have yuo increased the rate over all those years on a regular basis? - probably not... more likely you're still working for them for the same rate you agreed on many years ago...
They are losing money because their prices are too high .. and their clients have gone elsewhere - - and WHAT would real them back in ?? lower prices ?? What do you think these other agencies will propose?? Yes, the run to the bottom!....
(it's not the QUALITY of their translation that convinces them???)
...It sounds like they simply need BETTER SALES PEOPLE or people who are technically more competent, working with TMs and tools to get more production...
And if you're still in with them for 30% of your income and haven't noticed a decrease over the last few months? That means the clients you serve are still there!
It's also very unlikely their own staff is taking a 12,5% pay cut -- so why should you???
Do you see an increase in work from your other clients? Are you still chasing new jobs for better rates? Do you generally have new and better paying clients ? Have you become complacent and just accept whatever this agency is offering you?
Personally I have said goodbye to a few long term clients this year, they where dragging me down with lots of urgent jobs, weekend work, stress requests and late payments (simply because they spend a lot of time finding cheaper translators, before finally sending me the job on Friday afternoon...)
There is no way for you to check if you are their preferred translator - it's just a carrot - they learnt on some marketing & sales training somewhere... they are more likely to search for the cheapest translator every time...
With this client out of your hair - you have more time for new and better paying clients who do not depend on YOU to save THEIR business and who can keep up their own pants!!
JUST SAY NO!
===
Ed ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
स्पेन
Local time: 13:02
स्पेनी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| I think I know the outfit ... | Dec 11, 2015 |
Thomas is talking about. Actually, they hit me for the 12% too earlier this year, which I agreed to, as in all other aspects they were fine - high-volume, prompt payers etc. They lather it up a bit, as he says, by telling you that you are or will be a preferred translator (which just means a cheaper one, but providing the same quality). I wanted to know if volume would be the same, or even more. They hummed and hawed on that one, but I had pretty much only occasional jobs after that. Only months... See more Thomas is talking about. Actually, they hit me for the 12% too earlier this year, which I agreed to, as in all other aspects they were fine - high-volume, prompt payers etc. They lather it up a bit, as he says, by telling you that you are or will be a preferred translator (which just means a cheaper one, but providing the same quality). I wanted to know if volume would be the same, or even more. They hummed and hawed on that one, but I had pretty much only occasional jobs after that. Only months later they were asking for 15%. I asked did they mean another 3%, or an additional 15% to make 27%. Amazingly, they meant the latter. But I couldn't go with that - as I pointed out to them at the time, why would anyone accept LESS work at a lower rate?
I imagine there was probably some kind of corporate shake-up with cost-cutting because shareholders were grumbling and senior executives were having difficulties paying for that second swimming pool. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
यूनाइटेड किंगडम
Local time: 12:02
सदस्य (2014)
जापानी से अंग्रेजी
| Only written undertakings can be trusted | Dec 11, 2015 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
But I couldn't go with that - as I pointed out to them at the time, why would anyone accept LESS work at a lower rate?
Well Mervyn, in effect you did just that by accepting that 12% cut without some meaningful assurance of higher volume, so you got the same or less volume for 12% less money.
I would believe promises of higher volume only if they sent me a new contract stating that they would guarantee at least 12% higher volume than the same period of the previous year. I'm guessing that nobody, yourself included, got a piece of paper like that. And meanwhile management laughed all the way to the bank.
The lesson for us all is that we are nothing to the larger agencies, just a nameless, faceless, fungible cog in a machine that management cares about only for as long as it makes money for them. Management at such firms will never stop pushing downward on your rates. I have been on the other side; I know how these people think and work.
The only way you can win is by not playing their game. Don't work with them.
Regards
Dan
| | |
|
|
|
Mervyn Henderson (X)
स्पेन
Local time: 13:02
स्पेनी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| Yes, Dan ... | Dec 11, 2015 |
... you're right, of course. But what I meant was I would only take it so far, and by the time I realised I hadn't actually worked at the lower rate so much. I will of course quote a rate higher than ever before for any future jobs. Can't see them using me again, but sometimes customers don't have a choice.
Mervyn
| | | | Sheila Wilson
स्पेन
Local time: 12:02
सदस्य (2007)
अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| Less is far better than more, I'd say | Dec 11, 2015 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
why would anyone accept LESS work at a lower rate?
I could imagine accepting the odd job now and again for less than my normal rate. If there wasn't anything better looming on the horizon, the job was interesting, the client easy to collaborate with, and I had some spare time between jobs that paid better, then why not? I don't tend to as I feel that any spare time is normally better spent marketing or just relaxing, but it isn't out of the question.
What is out of the question, at least for me personally, is accepting large volumes of work for less per hour. Why would you want to become a preferred supplier of a client who pays less than other potential clients out there? And one who has already proved to be far from any translator's preferred client? I just can't understand that.
You take a 12% drop for one hour's work and you've made maybe EUR 3-4 less. Not exactly a catastrophe. Do 20 hours each month and you're EUR 60-80 down, or nearly a grand a year. If that client really prefers you, you could find that that evening out, new pair of shoes, even the annual holiday, will have to go. It seems to me to make a whole lot more sense to say "No" and spend the time looking for clients whose work WILL pay for those little extras.
| | | | Dan Lucas
यूनाइटेड किंगडम
Local time: 12:02
सदस्य (2014)
जापानी से अंग्रेजी
| Many translators are too nice | Dec 11, 2015 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
I will of course quote a rate higher than ever before for any future jobs.
The problem is not that you were stupid or foolish - and I hope I didn't imply that - but that a bad actor has crept into our environment. You acted in good faith and expected the company to play fair with you and, well, they didn't.
The kind of gesture you made is the kind of behavior that we regularly deploy for people we know and trust - colleagues, ex-classmates, friends and so on. We expect some kind of unspecified reciprocity at some point down the road. In most cases our gesture would indeed be reciprocated in some way and everything works more or less smoothly.
Companies like this take advantage of the unwritten social rule of reciprocity. They ask for things and, as decent human beings, we expect that they will make good on the reciprocation they imply or even explicitly promise. But they don't.
Unless we have very good reason to believe otherwise, no company over more than (say) a few dozen employees should be afforded such trust. They take and don't give, simply because they have found that they can defy certain social expectations with impunity. It's exploitative behavior.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Long term client putting pressure on rate | Protemos translation business management system |
|---|
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | CafeTran Espresso |
|---|
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
