Fooled by the client (translation agency) विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: golf264
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golf264 
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
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When I started the project TERMS were laid down and agreed via email that I would be PAID 3 days after the invoice. This was suggested by the client themselves, and I took that into account when I drafted the bill, wherein the payment was expected within 3 days.
After the 3rd and then the 4th day of no payment received, I contacted them and they claim that invoices are not paid until the 15th of the month, and then only to those of the previous month. They will first check with the... See more When I started the project TERMS were laid down and agreed via email that I would be PAID 3 days after the invoice. This was suggested by the client themselves, and I took that into account when I drafted the bill, wherein the payment was expected within 3 days.
After the 3rd and then the 4th day of no payment received, I contacted them and they claim that invoices are not paid until the 15th of the month, and then only to those of the previous month. They will first check with the customer to make sure everything is right.
I now regret that I have worked for them.
Their blue board is otherwise spotless, they have something like 78 positive messages where people say they even paid out 1 day after invoice. That was the whole reason I went to work for them at all.
What to do? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jan Willem van Dormolen (X)
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 22:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
By all means, enter a BB entry.
And keep complaining with the agency, stating clearly that you won't do any work for them anymore unless they pay you promptly.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
स्पेन
Local time: 21:12
सदस्य (2007)
अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| So it's in writing? | Oct 9, 2014 |
golf264 wrote:
When I started the project TERMS were laid down and agreed via emai
If those emails are at all clear on the point that they either proposed 3 days or explicitly accepted your request for payment after 3 days, then they're in breach of contract. Technically, that means you can sue them. Practically, it does at least mean you can (and should, IMHO) alert others to their reluctance to respect the agreed payment terms.
You shouldn't be using the BB to exact payment but maybe it would be worth your while alerting them of your intention to post negative feedback. They may be happy to pay speedily, and that would be good . It may well influence your choice of score, but it would be useful to others if you nevertheless word your comment to include some reference to this.
| | | | Tom in London
यूनाइटेड किंगडम
Local time: 21:12
सदस्य (2008)
इतालवी से अंग्रेजी
| One thing to do | Oct 9, 2014 |
golf264 wrote:
What to do?
One suggestion: 100% glowingly positive comments on the BlueBoard always make me slightly doubtful. If there are any other comments that are less than glowingly positive, privately contact the person who posted them and ask what their experience was. The BlueBoard is a useful tool but in my opinion it is not, by itself, an infallible guide to how an outsourcer performs; you should seek other information as well.
[Edited at 2014-10-09 14:04 GMT]
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Thayenga
जर्मनी
Local time: 22:12
सदस्य (2009)
अंग्रेजी से जर्मन
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
golf264 wrote:
When I started the project TERMS were laid down and agreed via emai
If those emails are at all clear on the point that they either proposed 3 days or explicitly accepted your request for payment after 3 days, then they're in breach of contract. Technically, that means you can sue them. Practically, it does at least mean you can (and should, IMHO) alert others to their reluctance to respect the agreed payment terms.
You shouldn't be using the BB to exact payment but maybe it would be worth your while alerting them of your intention to post negative feedback. They may be happy to pay speedily, and that would be good . It may well influence your choice of score, but it would be useful to others if you nevertheless word your comment to include some reference to this.
I agree with Sheila's detailed assessment of your case and her suggestions.
If the client has a spotless BB record, then, by all means, make an entry stating the facts. Sometimes this helps and speeds up the payment process.
| | | | Tom in London
यूनाइटेड किंगडम
Local time: 21:12
सदस्य (2008)
इतालवी से अंग्रेजी
Thayenga wrote:
If the client has a spotless BB record, then, by all means, make an entry stating the facts. Sometimes this helps and speeds up the payment process.
Yes, but don't add to their spotless record.
| | | | golf264
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता
Sheila Wilson wrote:
golf264 wrote:
When I started the project TERMS were laid down and agreed via emai
If those emails are at all clear on the point that they either proposed 3 days or explicitly accepted your request for payment after 3 days, then they're in breach of contract. Technically, that means you can sue them. Practically, it does at least mean you can (and should, IMHO) alert others to their reluctance to respect the agreed payment terms.
You shouldn't be using the BB to exact payment but maybe it would be worth your while alerting them of your intention to post negative feedback. They may be happy to pay speedily, and that would be good . It may well influence your choice of score, but it would be useful to others if you nevertheless word your comment to include some reference to this.
I thought also of the Blue Board method. I just cant understand why we fellow translators are sometimes our own enemies. If some employers do this, we post still nothing but positive - why? Does that mean fellow translators are unreliable about their ratings?
I can post there a negative entry, I am just frustrated. This is a German employer with good contacts, it seems to me illogical. The only ones who have ever cheated me of payment were Americans. And I am biased in who I work for, sorry.
| | | | golf264
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता
Tom in London wrote:
golf264 wrote:
What to do?
One suggestion: 100% glowingly positive comments on the BlueBoard always make me slightly doubtful. If there are any other comments that are less than glowingly positive, privately contact the person who posted them and ask what their experience was. The BlueBoard is a useful tool but in my opinion it is not, by itself, an infallible guide to how an outsourcer performs; you should seek other information as well. [Edited at 2014-10-09 14:04 GMT]
Seriously? Why would 78 people every single one of them post only excellent ratings? Something is just plain wrong with that?
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Ildiko Santana
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 14:12
सदस्य (2002)
हंगरी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
मध्यस्थ | Report them on BB but give them a 2 | Oct 9, 2014 |
golf264 wrote:
I thought also of the Blue Board method. I just cant understand why we fellow translators are sometimes our own enemies. If some employers do this, we post still nothing but positive - why? Does that mean fellow translators are unreliable about their ratings?
I can post there a negative entry, I am just frustrated.
Word of advice: do not let your frustration dictate the most negative entry possible. By all means, try to warn your fellow ProZians, do share the basic facts of your case, BUT make sure you select 2 (highly unlikely that you will work with them again) and not 1 (never again). State what you agreed on, where they failed you, and lastly state that you will work with them again if they pay your fee upfront.
I have had unfortunate experiences twice with the BB. In both cases I rated the clients - who had breached our written agreements and failed to pay according to our agreed terms - with 1 (no payment, never again). In both cases staff removed my entry after they had me confirm via private emails that the client did pay. Those entries are now hidden. Most likely this agency in question, any several others on the BB, have hidden negative entries because of this method. All they need to do is complain to staff that they did pay, and the rest is history.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
स्पेन
Local time: 21:12
सदस्य (2007)
अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| I'd wondered about that | Oct 9, 2014 |
Ildiko Santana wrote:
I have had unfortunate experiences twice with the BB. In both cases I rated the clients - who had breached our written agreements and failed to pay according to our agreed terms - with 1 (no payment, never again). In both cases staff removed my entry after they had me confirm via private emails that the client did pay. Those entries are now hidden. Most likely this agency in question, any several others on the BB, have hidden negative entries because of this method. All they need to do is complain to staff that they did pay, and the rest is history.
So it really has nothing to do with our likelihood of every working with them again. It's about payment or no payment. And no other form of gross misconduct can be taken into consideration.
That's how those big-name agencies on this site can get away with such appalling practices. They pay the good translators a pittance after having led them a merry dance for three months or more, at which point the BB entry gets removed. Their bad translators (and they have a lot of those, I'm sure) get an email to the effect that their work is substandard, meaning that they are not allowed to post anything negative at all, even if they never get a cent.
Not exactly what I'd call a level playing field.
| | | | golf264
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता | Very valid point here, could it be censure from Proz.com | Oct 9, 2014 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Ildiko Santana wrote:
I have had unfortunate experiences twice with the BB. In both cases I rated the clients - who had breached our written agreements and failed to pay according to our agreed terms - with 1 (no payment, never again). In both cases staff removed my entry after they had me confirm via private emails that the client did pay. Those entries are now hidden. Most likely this agency in question, any several others on the BB, have hidden negative entries because of this method. All they need to do is complain to staff that they did pay, and the rest is history.
So it really has nothing to do with our likelihood of every working with them again. It's about payment or no payment. And no other form of gross misconduct can be taken into consideration.
That's how those big-name agencies on this site can get away with such appalling practices. They pay the good translators a pittance after having led them a merry dance for three months or more, at which point the BB entry gets removed. Their bad translators (and they have a lot of those, I'm sure) get an email to the effect that their work is substandard, meaning that they are not allowed to post anything negative at all, even if they never get a cent.
Not exactly what I'd call a level playing field.
Still I have my doubts because every single one of the entries goes out of its way to commend and praise the employer. If it were just that the negative ones are removed, and people can only comment on yes/no payment, then why such outstanding entries?
I have included a link for reference of the BB:
http://i60.tinypic.com/2craukg.png
Or are you saying for every 78 entries there are possibly 25-40 more negative ones, that are just hidden by proz.com?
Not exactly fair to us in that case.
| | | | golf264
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता | How can one make of a profession of this with no guaranteed pay? | Oct 9, 2014 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Ildiko Santana wrote:
I have had unfortunate experiences twice with the BB. In both cases I rated the clients - who had breached our written agreements and failed to pay according to our agreed terms - with 1 (no payment, never again). In both cases staff removed my entry after they had me confirm via private emails that the client did pay. Those entries are now hidden. Most likely this agency in question, any several others on the BB, have hidden negative entries because of this method. All they need to do is complain to staff that they did pay, and the rest is history.
So it really has nothing to do with our likelihood of every working with them again. It's about payment or no payment. And no other form of gross misconduct can be taken into consideration.
That's how those big-name agencies on this site can get away with such appalling practices. They pay the good translators a pittance after having led them a merry dance for three months or more, at which point the BB entry gets removed. Their bad translators (and they have a lot of those, I'm sure) get an email to the effect that their work is substandard, meaning that they are not allowed to post anything negative at all, even if they never get a cent.
Not exactly what I'd call a level playing field.
Suppose one is a 'lower' or 'bad' translator to use your own words, that produces sub-par work. Then this person can never be paid and it is allowable by proz.com because they screen the entries on the BB?
So you are saying that they effectively lose their right to pay, and the employer can go on with it?
Ridiculous.
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Yolanda Broad
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 17:12
सदस्य (2000)
फ्रांसीसी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
मध्यस्थ | Make a new entry to replace the one that was removed | Oct 9, 2014 |
When a client pays, the LWA entry is removed, but... the reason for removing the entry is to allow you to make a new entry. You don't have to change the number, or even state that you've been paid, just remove the part about not having been paid.
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