| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | Refuse after a test without any explanation विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: fellner
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Gad Kohenov 
इजराईल
Local time: 17:04
अंग्रेजी से हीब्रू
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| Ask for a payment | Sep 14, 2008 |
Free tests led to nothing. I just lost my time. Sometimes I was pretty sure the test text was all there was to it. Never heard back from the person or agency. Just free riders. I has an agency who said they don't believe in free tests and offered to pay. But that was an isolated case.
So I learned my lesson. I ask for a payment. A "test" is a translation just like any other text. If they refuse I save myself valuable working time. After 22 years in the profession and being where I am in th... See more Free tests led to nothing. I just lost my time. Sometimes I was pretty sure the test text was all there was to it. Never heard back from the person or agency. Just free riders. I has an agency who said they don't believe in free tests and offered to pay. But that was an isolated case.
So I learned my lesson. I ask for a payment. A "test" is a translation just like any other text. If they refuse I save myself valuable working time. After 22 years in the profession and being where I am in the Kudoz list (in several pairs) I don't feel I need to do prove my abilities to tyros. I am ready to send a text of my own choice with it's translation - NADA MAS!
Desert Fox ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A different way to look at it | Sep 14, 2008 |
fellner wrote:
I have not got the results for weeks. After continuous asking they responded now (September): "The client has selected their Translators and your sample has not been selected."
So I have not got any detailed explanation about my mistakes and the reason of this decision.
Do I accept this?
First of all, you have my sympathy for being in this situation. I'm not totally against tests myself, I have my limits and my standards and will apply them in each particular case.
What I don't necessarily agree with is, as one poster stated, that a 'test is not there for your to learn from your mistakes' (paraphrased).
If this were a case of you being rejected by the *agency*, I would say you are well within your rights to demand the grounds, including a copy of any review or grading done.
However, your answer, if you have quoted correctly, was that the Client selected the translators it wanted to work with.
Now I can tell you from personal experience, this very likely may have
a) nothing whatsoever to do with the agency, in which case it cannot possibly give you an explanation
b) nothing whatsoever to do with quality/mistakes
I work with one agency on a somewhat regular basis that deals quite extensively with marketing texts. They once asked me to provide a (very short) free trial translation for a potential client, and I agreed as a courtesy, because of the volume of work I get from this agency and our generally positive relations.
When my translation was not chosen, but another translation from the same agency was, I asked the agency if it would be possible to review the "winning" translation.
Lo and behold, when I did, I found the translated text to be far short of what I would call a properly localized translation - instead it had quite a few phrases that appeared directly derived from the German source text without any thought to the actual phrasing used in English for the subject matter.
But the (new) client preferred this text over mine - most likely precisely because of the familiarity of the words, never mind the fact that it wasn't really a "correct" translation.
Given the situation, I was certainly not in a position to argue with anyone as to the appropriateness of the terminology used. This was not my client and it didn't intend to be. The agency did its job of providing several translations, and the client was free to choose.
In my view, they made their bed, now they would have to lie in it. It wouldn't be me dealing with the repercussions!
| | | | Rimma Kehr
जर्मनी
Local time: 16:04
जर्मन से अंग्रेजी
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| Refuse after a test without any explanation | Sep 14, 2008 |
Hi dear friends and colleagues,
There were such cases with me, where I received contracts the test translations, but in several cases I had no contracts.
With such a case I called this company and asked, what is the reason of the refusal, their secretary said, there were thousands applicants and she could not find my application at all.
Afterwards I found out, this company used my translation for an advertisement catalog, without paying me for my translation.
I ... See more Hi dear friends and colleagues,
There were such cases with me, where I received contracts the test translations, but in several cases I had no contracts.
With such a case I called this company and asked, what is the reason of the refusal, their secretary said, there were thousands applicants and she could not find my application at all.
Afterwards I found out, this company used my translation for an advertisement catalog, without paying me for my translation.
I assume, the same could be also with other applicants too.
My advice: you should use your legal protection insurance if you have it.
Best regards
Rimma Kehr ▲ Collapse
| | | | savaria (X)
हंगरी
Local time: 16:04
अंग्रेजी से हंगरी
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Maybe I am a bit sarcastic(or malevolent,as you want),but can it not be the case that (again,as it really wouldn't be the first time) the employer was furbish(or clever,as you want) and he/she cut up the text into several pieces and send it out to several translators as free sample,so to say test translation-just to get the work done-for free ,hm?
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I've long since refused to take tests and get plenty of work.
There is also an issue with regard to who is evaluating the test. Sometimes companies put their faith in the wrong people.
| | | | Samuel Murray
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 16:04
सदस्य (2006)
अंग्रेजी से अफ्रीकान
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| Not good enough versus not the best | Sep 14, 2008 |
Janet Rubin wrote:
If this were a case of you being rejected by the *agency*, I would say you are well within your rights to demand the grounds, including a copy of any review or grading done.
No, I disagree. If the agency says "we looked at your translation and you're not good enough", you may have a point. But in many cases, if multiple translators do a test, the losers weren't necessarily not good enough, but they simply weren't the best.
| | | | Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 16:04
फ्रांसीसी से अंग्रेजी
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| Sue for breach of copyright | Sep 14, 2008 |
Rimma Kehr wrote:
Hi dear friends and colleagues,
... Afterwards I found out, this company used my translation for an advertisement catalog, without paying me for my translation.
I assume, the same could be also with other applicants too.
My advice: you should use your legal protection insurance if you have it.
Best regards
Rimma Kehr
A clear case of breach of your copyright, wherever the agency was, unless you signed it away before or on delivery of the testpiece.
No comprendo legal protection (Rechtsschutz?). If you mean a legal expenses policy, then surely this would be to cover your costs of litigation against the offending agency, rather than covering the agency's breach which effectively boils down to theft of your work.
[Edited at 2008-09-14 20:06]
| | | | | Is this really disagreement? | Sep 15, 2008 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
But in many cases, if multiple translators do a test, the losers weren't necessarily not good enough, but they simply weren't the best.
This doesn't appear to be actually disagreeing with my point that the translator deserves to know the grounds, this is simply changing the grounds.
In such a case, the agency is free to say that they had multiple translations to choose from, and in the end made a decision for stylistic (etc.) reasons. That would still be letting the translator know why s/he was not chosen.
I have never actually taken a "test" translation (more than 2 or 3 lines of text) where the agency didn't report back to me with the reason(s) and/or a complete review/marking of the test. (In all fairness, I believe I was only rejected outright once, when I was a newbie at Trados; others will accept my "test results" but I may be too expensive, etc.)
From my experience, this leads me to believe that "serious agencies" will do this as a regular practice.
But in this case, as I mentioned in my post, it appears that it was not the agency making the decision. If the agency's sole job was to find a translator for this one client and the agency did not need any other translators for regular business in this language pair and direction, this point would be moot.
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Rolf Kern
स्विट्जरलैंड
Local time: 16:04
अंग्रेजी से जर्मन
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की याद में | Tests are a must | Sep 15, 2008 |
When I think of the rather bad quality of the translations of some of our colleagues I always wonder how a client could give work to a new translator without asking for a short free test.
| | | | | On that point ... | Sep 15, 2008 |
Janet Rubin wrote:
... others will accept my "test results" but I may be too expensive, etc.
... it's always a good idea to agree on rates before doing any tests (paid or otherwise).
| | | | | The new wave | Sep 15, 2008 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Janet Rubin wrote:
... others will accept my "test results" but I may be too expensive, etc.
... it's always a good idea to agree on rates before doing any tests (paid or otherwise).
I don't disagree, but I've experienced a situation (I think twice now) where I was basically able to set my own prices by putting them into a database, and was subsequently contacted for the "standard test".
The result: I "passed", but I gather either from jobs actually posted or through the lack of job offers that my "database price" may be a deciding factor here.
I have to admit, I did have an inkling what I was getting into in these cases. In situations like these, I definitely apply my ground rules (any unpaid tests only of a certain length, only when I truly have free time, etc.).
| | | | Stephanie Sirot (X)
कनाडा
Local time: 07:04
अंग्रेजी से फ्रांसीसी
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| 2 types of test | Sep 15, 2008 |
To me, there are 2 types of test. And I have a totally different attitude for both types.
Type 1 is the kind of (usually) small test you are sometimes asked to do when bidding for a contract, whether it is on Proz or somewhere else. I usually do this type of test, as I consider it part of the tendering process. On a few occasions, it landed me contracts, including big ones. When it doesn't work out, I just get over it and move on. It is not necessarily my translation. It might also... See more To me, there are 2 types of test. And I have a totally different attitude for both types.
Type 1 is the kind of (usually) small test you are sometimes asked to do when bidding for a contract, whether it is on Proz or somewhere else. I usually do this type of test, as I consider it part of the tendering process. On a few occasions, it landed me contracts, including big ones. When it doesn't work out, I just get over it and move on. It is not necessarily my translation. It might also be that my proposed rate is not in the agency's budget.
Type 2 is the evaluation test given by an agency you applied to, mainly to be included in their database. This type I never do, or at least not for free. I usually ask for a flat flee. If the agency doesn't pay for tests, I offer to provide them with samples and references. Some agencies do pay for test. Others do accept work sample and references in lieu of a test.
Actually, before doing any of that, I check if the agency will pay for my rates.
Stephanie. ▲ Collapse
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| Lose-lose situation? | Sep 15, 2008 |
On two occasions, as part of application process, I was given tests in the reverse language combination, which proved to be a lose-lose situation: if I don’t take a test, I’m not included on the database, if I do take it I won’t be able to pass (I didn't pass both tests), translating into my second language. Have any of dear colleagues been in such a situation?
| | | | DSilva
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 07:04
स्पेनी से अंग्रेजी
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| I hate timed tests. | Sep 19, 2008 |
I'm about to go through a one hour test for a company in the US - and I can't stand them.
I had to do a three hour test two weeks ago, and I had to contact the translation manager for her to tell me that I wasn't chosen because my style wasn't good enough... when I did all that I could in three hours. This particular test was relatively easy, but there is -no way- anyone can do a proper translation in three hours, especially because it was a sci-fi setting.
Maybe I'm ra... See more I'm about to go through a one hour test for a company in the US - and I can't stand them.
I had to do a three hour test two weeks ago, and I had to contact the translation manager for her to tell me that I wasn't chosen because my style wasn't good enough... when I did all that I could in three hours. This particular test was relatively easy, but there is -no way- anyone can do a proper translation in three hours, especially because it was a sci-fi setting.
Maybe I'm rambling. Or I'm just burned because of the horrible Spanish translations that Latin American game players have been subjected to for the past fifteen years. (I'm sorry, but we do not speak Spain Spanish down here, regardless of what companies think!)
[Edited at 2008-09-19 19:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | CFK TRAD
फ्रांस
Local time: 16:04
अंग्रेजी से फ्रांसीसी
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| Fully concur with this sound opinion ! | Sep 20, 2008 |
stephanie45 wrote:
To me, there are 2 types of test. And I have a totally different attitude for both types.
Type 1 is the kind of (usually) small test you are sometimes asked to do when bidding for a contract, whether it is on Proz or somewhere else. I usually do this type of test, as I consider it part of the tendering process. On a few occasions, it landed me contracts, including big ones. When it doesn't work out, I just get over it and move on. It is not necessarily my translation. It might also be that my proposed rate is not in the agency's budget.
Type 2 is the evaluation test given by an agency you applied to, mainly to be included in their database. This type I never do, or at least not for free. I usually ask for a flat flee. If the agency doesn't pay for tests, I offer to provide them with samples and references. Some agencies do pay for test. Others do accept work sample and references in lieu of a test.
Actually, before doing any of that, I check if the agency will pay for my rates.
Stephanie.
Dear all,
I have found this thread extremely interesting both as a translator and as an outsourcer.
I guess that, when you have a "public" tender (on Proz, eg, or elsewhere), the outsourcer should ask for a sample to be translated. But nothing more.
Remember that, when a job is posted onto Proz, with a "sample test", the sample cannot be longer than 500-character long (I say characters, not words). And it is really telling about the quality of the job, the value for money, etc. As an outsourcer, those 500 characters are critical in the way I select translators. But remember : it's 500 characters, not 500 words ! It's just one or two sentences, not one paragraph !
What I would like to point out is, until and unless a "test" is one-sentence (or 2-sentence long), the test should be paid. I refuse to ask for "free translation tests" when fellows apply. I prefer them to provide me with their samples, posted onto their profiles. I prefer to check the WWA - another critical point.
Stephanie's attitude is sound and honest; while refusing to take free tests, she offers to send other samples and references; it's up to the PM to pick up the phone and call the referees.
But never accept more than one or two sentences for free. It's too easy for bad agencies to get the whole project done for free !!
Conversely, do upload translation samples on your profile and/or ask for WWA feedbacks. A serious agency is more than likely to check these two elements - not to mention that proofing a 500-word test completed by 40 candidates is truly impossible considering the tight deadlines any PM has to cope with.
Best
Coralie
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