| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | The Disagree Drive (aka weeding out the rubbish) विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: Catherine Bolton
|
|---|
IanW (X)
Local time: 19:38
जर्मन से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| Tread softly, you tread on my ego ... | Aug 6, 2006 |
I'm not sure I like the idea of getting rid of the neutral button, unless it were replaced by a "comment box". Sometimes it is important to be able to add a comment without adding a plus or a minus.
What needs to change is that people should use stop using Neutral to disagree for fear of treading on over-sensitive toes. Which, essentially, is what Catherine is talking about.
(Incidentally, I do not agree with Mats' claim that the "asker is king/queen". As I see it, th... See more I'm not sure I like the idea of getting rid of the neutral button, unless it were replaced by a "comment box". Sometimes it is important to be able to add a comment without adding a plus or a minus.
What needs to change is that people should use stop using Neutral to disagree for fear of treading on over-sensitive toes. Which, essentially, is what Catherine is talking about.
(Incidentally, I do not agree with Mats' claim that the "asker is king/queen". As I see it, the asker - who, after all, is not paying us for our help - is part of a community and should give back something to the community in return, in the form of help for other askers.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Catherine Bolton 
Local time: 19:38
इतालवी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता की याद में | The disagree box | Aug 6, 2006 |
Mats Wiman wrote:
Recontructing Disagree:
1. You tick Disagree
2. Are forced to give a reason
3. There is no comment box
would in my view be ideal to decrease bickering and thereby promote an increased use of Disagree - which is the pronounced goal of your thread.
I agree with 1 and 2. I don't agree with 3. I think the comment box is important.
Catherine
[Edited at 2006-08-06 12:28]
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में
cbolton wrote:I think the comment box is important.
Although you already know that many bitter fights start right there?
Isn't the option to have more space for a more thorough argumentation, embedded in your own (hopefully superior) suggestion, a better choice?
Neutral is also an option for shorter comments.
YOU started this thread as a '"Disagree drive". Most of us know that Disagrees are not forthcoming because of fear.
Decrease that fear by abolishing the option and you will see many more Disagrees, don't you agree?
| | | | IanW (X)
Local time: 19:38
जर्मन से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
Mats Wiman wrote:
Most of us know that Disagrees are not forthcoming because of fear.
Decrease that fear by abolishing the option and you will see many more Disagrees, don't you agree?
I think "fear" is a little over the top. I'd be more inclined to call it "misplaced politeness". Or are there pairings where disagrees lead to death threats?
| | |
|
|
|
Catherine Bolton
Local time: 19:38
इतालवी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता की याद में
Mats Wiman wrote:
YOU started this thread as a '"Disagree drive". Most of us know that Disagrees are not forthcoming because of fear.
Decrease that fear by abolishing the option and you will see many more Disagrees, don't you agree?
I think a thicker skin is probably the answer
Catherine
| | | | | but ain't we going round in circles! | Aug 6, 2006 |
don't ya think?
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | Apprehension to post a Disagree | Aug 6, 2006 |
Ian Winick wrote:I think "fear" is a little over the top. I'd be more inclined to call it "misplaced politeness". Or are there pairings where disagrees lead to death threats?
or apprehension
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | Wishes don't help | Aug 6, 2006 |
cbolton wrote:I think a thicker skin is probably the answer
That is not instrmental (which my suggestion 3 is).
Mere wishes do not solve the problem.
[Edited at 2006-08-06 13:20]
| | |
|
|
|
Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | KudoZ is the payment | Aug 6, 2006 |
Ian Winick wrote: As I see it, the asker - who, after all, is not paying us for our help - is part of a community and should give back something to the community in return, in the form of help for other askers.)
You've got it wrong Ian.
KudoZ points IS the payment.
An asker is not necessarily an answerer and vice versa as you certainly can find out by looking into a few profile pages.
| | | | Catherine Bolton
Local time: 19:38
इतालवी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
विषय आरंभकर्ता की याद में | Sense of humor? | Aug 6, 2006 |
Mats Wiman wrote:
cbolton wrote:I think a thicker skin is probably the answer
That is not instrmental (which my suggestion 3 is. Wishes do not solve the problem.
It was tongue in cheek. Sorry if that did not come across. Something "instrumental to change" would be to USE the disagree button for its designed purpose. People seem to tiptoe around that button.
Taking away the possibility of commenting (your suggestion 3) does not foster profitable exchanges on language and the translating profession, which I thought was the purpose of this site.
Catherine
| | | | | No changes were proposed | Aug 6, 2006 |
As far as I can tell, the original thread has proposed no changes to the existing system, and IMHO, none are really required. All that is being discussed is whether, in an effort to boost quality, those who feel strongly about the quality issue should post more disagrees, in an effort to encourage answerers to reflect upon their answers before posting.
I happen to think that yes, they should.
I really don't see that this has to be accompanied by any changes to the agree... See more As far as I can tell, the original thread has proposed no changes to the existing system, and IMHO, none are really required. All that is being discussed is whether, in an effort to boost quality, those who feel strongly about the quality issue should post more disagrees, in an effort to encourage answerers to reflect upon their answers before posting.
I happen to think that yes, they should.
I really don't see that this has to be accompanied by any changes to the agree/neutral/disagree system as it currently exists, it just needs to be used properly and responsibly. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | No changes proposed? | Aug 6, 2006 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:I happen to think that yes, they should.
We all think they should.
I really don't see that this has to be accompanied by any changes to the agree/neutral/disagree system as it currently exists, it just needs to be used properly and responsibly.
So you mean to say that you have not observed that few Disagrees are posted, reportedly out of apprehension?
Your conclusion is that this will be solved by wishing or thinking that they SHOULD use Disagrees?
You will then only add another item to the long, long list of inoperative wishes which will remain as ineffective as they have been up till now.
| | |
|
|
|
Kim Metzger
मेक्सिको
Local time: 12:38
जर्मन से अंग्रेजी
| Linguistic comments | Aug 6, 2006 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
As far as I can tell, the original thread has proposed no changes to the existing system, and IMHO, none are really required. All that is being discussed is whether, in an effort to boost quality, those who feel strongly about the quality issue should post more disagrees, in an effort to encourage answerers to reflect upon their answers before posting.
I really don't see that this has to be accompanied by any changes to the agree/neutral/disagree system as it currently exists, it just needs to be used properly and responsibly.
Yes, Catherine has made a good contribution towards improving the quality of KudoZ. Over the years I have seen forum discussions lead to significant improvements in KudoZ. I'd say this thread will result in more people understanding that it's OK to disagree when answers are clearly wrong.
But I also think we need to address the question of how disagrees should be worded. Exactly what is a "purely linguistic comment" and when do we cross the line from linguistic to personal?
3.5 Peer comments must be purely linguistic. As elsewhere in the site, personal comments are not allowed in peer comments. Notes should be based solely on linguistic evaluation of answers provided. Backing up peer comments with references is encouraged.
| | | | | System in the technical sense | Aug 6, 2006 |
Mats Wiman wrote:
So you mean to say that you have not observed that few Disagrees are posted, reportedly out of apprehension?
Your conclusion is that this will be solved by wishing or thinking that they SHOULD use Disagrees?
I said nothing whatsoever about my observations on the number of Disagrees being posted, altho' I happen to think that yes, fewer Disagrees are posted than are perhaps deserved.
(Whether this is through politeness, fear, apprehension, a desire not to offend, sheer laziness, or any other reason, I wouldn't care to say.)
Anyway, my main point was that I see no useful purpose at this stage in discussing changes to the system from a technical viewpoint, e.g. removing the answerer's option to comment on a disagree (which I happen to think is probably the worst idea I've heard this year). Technically, I believe the system as it stands is OK.
And I thought that the purpose of the thread was precisely to counter your second point quoted above, i.e. to encourage responsible use of the disagree option, safe in the knowledge that this is perfectly acceptable behaviour.
Or indeed, conversely, if people do NOT think that increased and responsible use of the Disagree button could be a possible route to improved quality, for these individuals to express that view and their justification for it.
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:38
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | Doing nothing will produce nothing - as usual | Aug 6, 2006 |
Wishing that people should use Disagree brings nothing.
Agreeing that people should do something is beautiful but it will change nothing.
You need an automatic well-weighed technical solution to bring about change.
Otherwise the long, long list of wishes has only grown with another item.
| | | | | विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » The Disagree Drive (aka weeding out the rubbish) | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Pastey | Your smart companion app
Pastey is an innovative desktop application that bridges the gap between human expertise and artificial intelligence. With intuitive keyboard shortcuts, Pastey transforms your source text into AI-powered draft translations.
Find out more » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
