| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3 4] | How satisfied are you with KudoZ answers at ProZ.com? विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: lux
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BAmary (X) 
कनाडा
Local time: 13:40
अंग्रेजी से स्पेनी
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| Not at all accurate | Jul 10, 2006 |
[quote]Lettytb wrote:
- On one hand: if you cannot identify the right answer you should probably not be translating that subject....
As a Legal Translator (Traductora Pública) I can assure you that I studied A LOT of Law in College and Law is my main field of practice. Nevertheless, many times I come accross words or expressions I've never seen before and I need to do some research. The answer, unfortunately and even if the subject actually IS your field of expertise, is not always obvious. So I would go more with your second point: if you don't know the answer, you shouldn't be answering the question.
As for the points, I don't think it's really going to make much of a difference... If it's not for points, it's gonna be to look good, or any othe reason for that matter. Points don't need to be a bad thing, they can be a nice way of acknowledging the hard work of many people who know a lot and are willing to share that knowledge. It's just that some people get greedy and start answering anything in order to "fish" KudoZ. It should be the other way round: deducting points from those who sistematically give absurd answers!
| | | | Gina W
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 13:40
सदस्य (2003)
फ्रांसीसी से अंग्रेजी
| I completely agree | Jul 11, 2006 |
Textklick wrote:
So you are saying it's hard to find the correct answer in the French glossary among those that were not selected?
I can only speak for my language direction, where it's easy to sieze gems from among those that were 'cast aside'.
When I use the ProZ.com Term Search, often I come up with an old question where I use another answer that was not chosen - I usually post an "agree" as a way of acknowledging to that answerer that I appreciated that answer being there, since it fit my context perfectly. (This is not the first time I've posted about this on the forums, btw.)
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 18:40
जर्मन से अंग्रेजी
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की याद में | A sensible idea | Jul 11, 2006 |
gad wrote:
Textklick wrote:
So you are saying it's hard to find the correct answer in the French glossary among those that were not selected?
I can only speak for my language direction, where it's easy to sieze gems from among those that were 'cast aside'.
When I use the ProZ.com Term Search, often I come up with an old question where I use another answer that was not chosen - I usually post an "agree" as a way of acknowledging to that answerer that I appreciated that answer being there, since it fit my context perfectly. (This is not the first time I've posted about this on the forums, btw.)
Thanks gad - what an excellent idea! I shall remember that, as hopefully others will.
Cheers
Chris
| | | | Courtney McConnel (X)
फ्रांस
Local time: 19:40
फ्रांसीसी से अंग्रेजी
+ ...
| This debate is very helpful to me | Jul 14, 2006 |
I want to thank everyone, no matter what your position in this debate, I only discovered proz awhile back, and I've had so many questions. I'm also not accustomed to using any forums on the Net or anything interactive for that matter, so I was feeling a bit daunted by it all. Even the technology was so new to me that I inadvertently declined or accepted answers I didn't mean to in the beginning. And I think I've at least figured out how to do the quote properly in this forum!
This ... See more I want to thank everyone, no matter what your position in this debate, I only discovered proz awhile back, and I've had so many questions. I'm also not accustomed to using any forums on the Net or anything interactive for that matter, so I was feeling a bit daunted by it all. Even the technology was so new to me that I inadvertently declined or accepted answers I didn't mean to in the beginning. And I think I've at least figured out how to do the quote properly in this forum!
This is also so new being able to compare notes with other translators. In fact, before proz, I could have sworn there hardly WERE any other translators. When I go to parties or whatever, I meet people from all professions, but never from ours!
For all of you who express your desires for 'rigueur', I feel like I understand where you're coming from now. It's just ironic because it's my clients who have repeatedly said, "We don't have time for the details, Courtney. Put the metal to the pedal." They have been the ones to go to great pains to trick me out of perfectionism (though I have maintained some standards ). When I first started out, I would take the time to say, "Pierre-Emmanuel, are you sure you spelled MacDonald correctly in this man's $10M contract, 'coz you French love to add an A, and we Americans don't?" thinking, 'The guy may not understand a word of legalese, but he'll catch the spelling of his last name!' After getting SLAMMED for a comment such as that, after Pierre-Emmanuel intentionally coming in early the next day to work with my colleague instead of me (who, by the way, told me it WAS changed to McDonald!), I started to think twice. Then the next lawyer chided me for too much rigueur, then the next. Finally, I realized there are just some clients who need 'speed', and I can give it to them, retraining myself re: rigueur, so I did. For those women and men, they care ab out getting their product out first, setting up business before the next girl, & getting the paperwork over with. But that's an entirely different matter than proziens speaking Swahili and answering a Spanish question or people answering "I agree" just due to the buddy system (nightmare!). One of my closest friends in the world has chosen other answers over mine, and, I'll admit, I did take notice, but I agree with the general opinion I'm hearing here that we have to be fair to the asker.
I feel like I've gained a lot of insight into the KudoZ rationale here, and I have since modified my style of brainstorming and bouncing ideas around (by perhaps showing more respect to the other answerers) and I've added a touch more rigueur by taking a bit more time to read the category, the asker's background (if I can) and to qualify my answer as: 'just an idea' or 'pretty sure about this' or 'worked for me in X context'.
As for the comment about non-native speakers being of less help, I may not have understood...it's still baffling me. I have chosen one or two non-native replies, and their help is often critical for me as their native tongue is precisely the one I'm trying to figure out!
Anyway, like I said, I haven't noticed any 'chaff' in the help I've received, it's all been wheat, which we've spun into gold! But I understand that my experience is limited compared to others & that it would not be pleasant getting a bunch of chaff.
I hope this topic will continue...I find it so interesting. (I had no idea you could 'agree' with closed glossary entries!) ▲ Collapse
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| Bring back brainstorming! | Jul 19, 2006 |
What is the problem with wrong answers, especially bad wrong answers, the asker can just ignore them. I don't really understand what all the fuss is about in that respect.
Fortunately my experience of the Spanish-English pair is that people are generally polite and helpful. But I find comments in the forums by people who seem to take such mortal offense at a wrong answer intimidating and have consequently lost confidence in providing answers. I'm sure I'm not the only one and I thi... See more What is the problem with wrong answers, especially bad wrong answers, the asker can just ignore them. I don't really understand what all the fuss is about in that respect.
Fortunately my experience of the Spanish-English pair is that people are generally polite and helpful. But I find comments in the forums by people who seem to take such mortal offense at a wrong answer intimidating and have consequently lost confidence in providing answers. I'm sure I'm not the only one and I think we all feel the loss.
Secondly sometimes it is hard to know if you have the right answer or not, especially of there has been no input from other colleagues on the subject. I think there should be a way of making a simple correction to the glossaries when the wrong answer has been put in.
I found one the other day. It wasn't a bad answer, it was just the wrong answer, but all I could think to do was put in a disagree and the right answer in there for other users.
Maybe the process of appealing an answer (and I'm not talking about the points) could be more explicit. ▲ Collapse
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Gisela Murdter wrote:
And do we really need the points system? This is not the Olympics, but a forum where colleagues help each other out in tricky situations. And if I help X today, Y will help me tomorrow and in return is helped by Z next week. That's how it should work. But maybe I am idealistic here.
This is an interesting point, in fact I have it in the back of my mind that it was the subject of a quick poll not so long ago.
I admit that at one point I became really competitive about points and I hope I aren't any more.
There have also been situations when the translation I finally used was a combination of two colleagues' suggestions. In that case, who gets the points? Or when two colleagues post the same right answer at exactly the same time?
I think I would prefer KudoZ without the points, simply choosing an answer and saying thanks, or been chosen and having the satisfaction that you helped!
| | | | Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:40
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | No points = 75% reduction in helping hands | Jul 30, 2006 |
Dear Gisela and Sandra,
Please realize that many (often the qualified) answerers would cease to help when there is nothing in it for them.
The reason for answering is at least threefold:
1. To help
2. To engage in a possibly interesting linguistic exercise
3. To gain points, thereby showing your expertise.
Expertise is a searched for commodity by outsourcers
and
outsoursers should find you instead of someone else, shoul... See more Dear Gisela and Sandra,
Please realize that many (often the qualified) answerers would cease to help when there is nothing in it for them.
The reason for answering is at least threefold:
1. To help
2. To engage in a possibly interesting linguistic exercise
3. To gain points, thereby showing your expertise.
Expertise is a searched for commodity by outsourcers
and
outsoursers should find you instead of someone else, shouldn't they? ▲ Collapse
| | | | df49f (X)
फ्रांस
Local time: 19:40
| no points = 99% intelligent answers | Jul 30, 2006 |
Mats Wiman wrote:
Please realize that many (often the qualified) answerers would cease to help when there is nothing in it for them.
The reason for answering is at least threefold:
1. To help
2. To engage in a possibly interesting linguistic exercise
3. To gain points, thereby showing your expertise.
Expertise is a searched for commodity by outsourcers
and outsoursers should find you instead of someone else, shouldn't they?
I beg to differ...
...most "qualified" answerers couldn't care less about points because we already have a portfolio of repeat clients who in addition serve as references and are glad to give our names to future clients (none of whom even knows proz exists), and we therefore have zero need to look good or "show our expertise" on proz, nor do we have any need to hunt for badly paid jobs with fly-by-night agencies shopping on the proz discount market for the cheapest price around...
Our reasons for answering kudoz questions are TWO-fold only:
1. To help ... (but selectively...)
2. To engage in a possibly interesting linguistic exercise
Item 3 is perfectly irrelevant... and therefore items 1 & 2 would remain valid even if the point system did not exist.
May I add that if we still needed to rely on proz and our kudoz point rating to get jobs at our age and with our experience, then it means that we'd be in a really sad situation... denoting our lack of business success and hence a lack of skills as translators.
Lastly, expertise is indeed much sought after, but it certainly isn't a "commodity", more like a rarely found gold nugget and no decent well-paying quality-minded outsourcer will bother trying to sift through the commodity suppliers on proz to find those rare nuggets of expertise (and would certainly not find it by searching for top point-earners even if they tried...). As an occasional outsourcer, the first names I would discard in my search are precisely the kudoz point champions: the only thing I look at is the quality of answers (and questions and peer comments) even if those answers were not chosen.
df
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Mats Wiman
स्वीडन
Local time: 19:40
सदस्य (2000)
जर्मन से स्वीडी
+ ...
की याद में | Don't despise the less qualified | Jul 30, 2006 |
It is strange that established people tend to forget that once they weren't.
They tend also to forget that new generations are knocking on the door to find a place in the sun by earning various credentials. KudoZ points can be one of them.
They also tend not to see what they don't experience themselves. There are other translator than the ones who "already have a portfolio of repeat clients".
Live and let live!
[Edited at 2006-07-30 21:57]
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
Local time: 13:40
अंग्रेजी से स्पेनी
+ ...
| [cute Hello Kitty icon goes here] | Jul 31, 2006 |
Mats Wiman wrote:
It is strange that established people tend to forget that once they weren't.
What can I say? Some of us had a clue before diving in.
It's called planning ahead.
Very important when you're starting a business.
They tend also to forget that new generations are knocking on the door to find a place in the sun by earning various credentials. KudoZ points can be one of them.
Absolutely.
Think about it... well-established point-collectors who do Kudoz just to "hone their language skills", could even donate points to those who need them most!
They also tend not to see what they don't experience themselves. There are other translator than the ones who "already have a portfolio of repeat clients".
Oh, but we do see them.
--
Dyran
(waving at the peanut gallery)
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