| विषय में पृष्ठों की संख्या: < [1 2 3] > | Rejecting an already accepted job on moral grounds विषय पोस्ट करनेवाला व्यक्ति: Karin Kutscher
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Jessica M 
स्पेन
Local time: 18:01
स्पेनी से अंग्रेजी
| I think you were right, ethically and professionally. | Sep 26, 2007 |
First of all, as a vegetarian I commend your rejection of this job. And I think that any translator has the right to reject any job to which they are morally opposed, be it about animal testing, abortion, religion, etc. We are human beings with different beliefs and that is your choice.
Professionally, I think the way you handled it was OK too. And we all hate to lose clients, but if you lose one you lose one. Life goes on and you find another, right? As far as pre-checking the... See more First of all, as a vegetarian I commend your rejection of this job. And I think that any translator has the right to reject any job to which they are morally opposed, be it about animal testing, abortion, religion, etc. We are human beings with different beliefs and that is your choice.
Professionally, I think the way you handled it was OK too. And we all hate to lose clients, but if you lose one you lose one. Life goes on and you find another, right? As far as pre-checking the document, who here has ever done that or asked to do that? If the client says it is "chemical related" why would you automatically assume that it is about a subject to which you might be morally opposed and therefore have the need to pre-check it? That seems ridiculous to me. Yes you did accept the job, but luckily the client understood your reason for rejection. And PROFESSIONALLY what kind of company would they be if they never sent you any more work because you rejected an already-accepted job on moral grounds, and furthermore a job that THEY did not specify the content of? In my opinion that would make them seem pretty bad.
Just my two cents. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | ALWAYS check | Sep 26, 2007 |
Jessica M wrote:
As far as pre-checking the document, who here has ever done that or asked to do that?
I do not accept unseen jobs, and would consider it highly unprofessional to do so. I always tell my clients that I cannot give them a binding quote until I have looked over the entire document, and I make sure I do so. You never know what might be lurking on Page 19!
I would also have been horrified at the mention of lab animal research, as it is something I am hugely opposed to, but if I had already agreed to the job, I would have completed it - and perhaps have donated the money I received from it to an animal welfare organisation.
I DO do the occasional medical press release (coming from a medical family, I find new developments in healthcare fascinating), but I always check the content before I agree to them. (In German, a simple search for "Tier" will often suffice.) I have refused translations describing animal experimentation in the past, as I would find them highly disturbing to do.
On the flip side, however, I have done other "disturbing" translations, as, as someone else said, sometimes it's important that harrowing information is communicated as effectively as possible.
But no - I wouldn't reject a job I'd already accepted for any reason other than a family emergency/computer crash - and I would try to find someone else to take over the job in that type of case.
| | | | | We must be thinking differently | Sep 26, 2007 |
Jessica M wrote:
... and furthermore a job that THEY did not specify the content of?
We must be thinking differently.
I guess a customer’s message like ‘maths’, ‘legal’, ‘marketing’ is quite enough to get an idea of what the talk is about. Then it’s translator’s job to run it through before getting involved with translation to better understand whether the text is right for him/her and whether he/she is able to deliver it translated neat and tidy. I am also certain that this is exactly the phase at which he/she is able to fish out uncertainties on Page 101 of 102 which might contradict the morality, prepare comments, ask for reference if required and resolve the dilemma ‘to take or not to take’ by delivering the final decision.
| | | | Kirill Semenov
युक्रेन
Local time: 19:01
सदस्य (2004)
अंग्रेजी से रूसी
+ ...
| Check everything | Sep 26, 2007 |
As many people have already mentioned, before accepting a job one must check everything. This is a natural part of our work, and I don't think we may neglect it. You never know, so better get extra 30 minutes to check the text in its full, then take or reject it.
I'm not a vegetarian, and I have my own opinion about lab rats, but I would like to share story, which may be even more sensitive for many of us.
Once upon a time I was proposed to translate a book on Voodoo. W... See more As many people have already mentioned, before accepting a job one must check everything. This is a natural part of our work, and I don't think we may neglect it. You never know, so better get extra 30 minutes to check the text in its full, then take or reject it.
I'm not a vegetarian, and I have my own opinion about lab rats, but I would like to share story, which may be even more sensitive for many of us.
Once upon a time I was proposed to translate a book on Voodoo. When I opened the book, I've seen a lot of very negative and offensive references and mentions about Christianity. I have nothing against Voodoo but I don't like it when representatives of one faith abuse other faiths, so I refused. Not only did I refuse, I also persuaded the owners of the publishing house to not translate and publish this book in Russian. Again, it's not about Voodoo or Christianity, specifically, it's about my own respect to any faith or religion. What I'm trying to tell is that our personal position may matter and change things. Everyone has its own "limit" for controversial subjects, but only we decide what to do in every case, the most important thing is to do what each of us believes is right and not to do what we think is wrong. That simple.
[Edited at 2007-09-26 09:50]
[Edited at 2007-09-26 09:52] ▲ Collapse
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Kirill Semenov
युक्रेन
Local time: 19:01
सदस्य (2004)
अंग्रेजी से रूसी
+ ...
Karin Kutscher wrote:
I'm not vegan, I love to eat the meat of farm animals and wear leather (from farm animals) and I don't really research which household or medicine chemicals have been tested on animals, but I stop using them if I learn that that has been the case.
But, I'm a Pagan and I revolt at the idea of killing animals for purposes other than food, and above all at the idea of slowly killing them, or any other part of Nature.
The fact that you don't eat rats does not yet mean killing a cow for food or killing a tiger for fur is anyhow better that killing a lab rat for seeking a better cure for cancer. As an animal species, we seek for better ways of survival, and if cows and lab rats help us, there is little difference, admit it. Being Pagan is not right word here. You just choose what is comfortable for you and what you can easily reject, that's all. "I love meat, I like furs, but please don't kill those cutie sweetie rats". Don't make me laugh.
| | | | | off (this) topic - @ Iza | Sep 26, 2007 |
Iza Szczypka wrote:
(...) Also, I'm part of a team doing a huge job translating foreign police records for the case to be put before a court here. The job is revolting - a minute-by-minute account of every angle of several crimes for which the beast claiming the proud title of a human being deserves a million years in prison. Still, if everybody having any human feelings refused the job, no justice would be possible
Dear Iza,
I must say I was shocked to read those words of yours. I don't aim to discuss here the severity of the crimes you talk about or the culpability of the presumed perpetrator or the concepts of humanity and animality, or, or... But, for many reasons, I think we should always do our best to speak/think about other persons without risking denying them the human being status - even if it can be sometimes emotionally not easy.
As you state - in your words and your doing, justice should always made possible. With carefully chosen words.
Best regards
Muriel
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cbolton wrote:
OK, I'm going to go against the majority here, but I think you should consider yourself extremely lucky that they contacted you again.
You've gotten lots of pats on the back here, but what about *professional* ethics? You said the deadline was tight. What if the agency hadn't been able to find someone else? What if they were late submitting the job? What if, in turn, they lost that customer? Would your willingness to accept financial responsibility extend to that?
The key here is "already accepted": you accepted, so I think you should have completed the assignment. You should have checked the job BEFORE accepting it but once you accept, you have an obligation.
A few years ago I agreed to translate what the agency called "a speech". Short deadline, of course. As it turned out, in the middle the speech took a political stance with which I completely disagree, and I'll admit that I felt uncomfortable with it. But I had agreed to do it. All I had to do after turning it in was say "please don't contact me with jobs for that particular customer again".
Catherine
The crux of the matter, as Catherine says, is that the job had already been accepted, unless there was some form of serious misrepresentation about the nature of the job and for one reason or another the job couldn't be viewed before acceptance (which I always refuse anyhow, unless I really know the client very well).
Under the circumstances the job should have been completed, with a polite request at the end not to send similar material again.
I also agree with the points raised by Misha and Marie-Helene and Hillary
[Edited at 2007-09-26 11:14]
| | | | Margreet Logmans (X)
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 18:01
अंग्रेजी से डच
+ ...
| Muriel, you are absolutely right | Sep 26, 2007 |
Muriel Fuchs wrote:
For many reasons, I think we should always do our best to speak/think about other persons without risking denying them the human being status - even if it can be sometimes emotionally not easy.
As you state - in your words and your doing, justice should always made possible. With carefully chosen words.
Dear Muriel,
thanks for saying this. I couldn't agree more.
Best,
Margreet
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Samuel Murray
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 18:01
सदस्य (2006)
अंग्रेजी से अफ्रीकान
+ ...
| You could alter it... but would it be right? | Sep 26, 2007 |
Karin Kutscher wrote:
Have you ever been in a similar situation?
Somewhat similar. I translated a document which would be used in schools to teach history, and I thought the author's view was extremely biased. Just the choice of words already marked it.
So here's the conundrum... do you transfer the hatred that exists in the source text into the target text, knowing that generations of school children will be indoctrinated with it? Do you soften the choice of words to make the information seem more moderate or reasonable?
Note: I'm not talking about changing the "facts" in the document to reflect my own bias -- that is not translation.
Sometimes the author is just ignorant of his own prejudices -- he doesn't mean any harm. But school books teaching history are always intended to influence the thinking of children in favour of the current regime, therefore the bias in the text is quite possibly intentional.
In the end I steeled myself and stayed professional -- only making softening changes to words of which that I believed the author's implied definition was highly suspect. The hatred was transferred into the target text as sublimely as it was in the source text... but I certainly wasn't happy.
| | | | Luca Ruella
संयुक्त राज्य अमरीका
अंग्रेजी से इतालवी
+ ...
The problem is that you had already accepted the job. You did everything in good faith and found yourself in a problematic situation which nobody could have predicted beforehand.
My personal opinion is that in professional life, emotions come second to deadlines, productivity etc. It might be arguable and cold, but in my opinion this is one of the things that differentiates the professional from the amateur (do not get me wrong, I am not implying that you are an amateur!)
... See more The problem is that you had already accepted the job. You did everything in good faith and found yourself in a problematic situation which nobody could have predicted beforehand.
My personal opinion is that in professional life, emotions come second to deadlines, productivity etc. It might be arguable and cold, but in my opinion this is one of the things that differentiates the professional from the amateur (do not get me wrong, I am not implying that you are an amateur!)
I would have contacted the agency to refuse the job only if my personal beliefs would have impaired the quality of my translation.
Otherwise I would have made an extra effort to complete the job and, with the delivery, I would have specified that in the future I would not accept jobs concerning whatever I do not feel comfortable with.
I think the agency has been very nice with you. This is probably because you have always provided them with high quality service and they do not want to give you up!
Anyway, I would not be against esperimenation on animals. It's a necessary part of medicine, and without that we would be curing ourselves with fresh water and flowers.
[Edited at 2007-09-26 14:01] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
नीदरलैंड
Local time: 18:01
सदस्य (2006)
अंग्रेजी से अफ्रीकान
+ ...
| No, morals do come into play | Sep 26, 2007 |
The Misha wrote:
I am not trying to be judgemental here, but I think all of you guys are way off. I am sure, we are all making our own rules - that's the beauty of being your own boss - but why stop there?
You are right when you say that different people have different morals, but I do think that the same applies to other professions.
If you're an electrician and you do contract work in a country where torture is legal, would you be happy to install electrical torture equipment, if torture is against your morals?
Let's take a real example -- in the Apartheid years, medical doctors were on call during prisoner torture sessions to ensure that the prisoners don't die. These docters said "We were just doing our job, and being professional about it", but is that really an excuse?
Are you as a professional translator not playing a part in any of the consequences of your translation?
| | | | Andrea Riffo
चिली
Local time: 12:01
अंग्रेजी से स्पेनी
+ ...
| Always check as well | Sep 26, 2007 |
Hilary Davies wrote:
Jessica M wrote:
As far as pre-checking the document, who here has ever done that or asked to do that? If the client says it is "chemical related" why would you automatically assume that it is about a subject to which you might be morally opposed and therefore have the need to pre-check it
I do not accept unseen jobs, and would consider it highly unprofessional to do so. I always tell my clients that I cannot give them a binding quote until I have looked over the entire document, and I make sure I do so. You never know what might be lurking on Page 19!
I check every document I get. I don't do it out of fear of finding something I'm morally against (if I were to assume beforehand that every assignment I am offered will contain material that goes against my morals, I'd look for another profession), I do it:
- to give a quote based on the text and not on a description such as "it's medical" (how vague is that?). Same applies for the deadline.
- to verify that the text is really whithin my capabilities
- to verify that the whole text is readable and translatable
- to get an idea of the number of charts, graphs, et al, all of which make the job a little bit harder and a little bit slower
etc.
EDITED to make the point clearer and avoid further misunderstandings
[Edited at 2007-09-26 15:48]
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| Perks of freelancing | Sep 26, 2007 |
Andrea Riffo wrote:
- to give a quote based on the text and not on a description such as "it's medical" (how vague is that?). Same applies for the deadline.
- to verify that the text is really whithin my capabilities
- to verify that the whole text is readable and translatable
- to get an idea of the number of charts, graphs, et al, all of which make the job a little bit harder and a little bit slower
etc.
[Edited at 2007-09-26 14:40]
Exactly! I'd consider that only professional. It's also for self-preservation, as I consider it my obligation to deliver a job I've accepted, no matter how much I dislike it. If I end up with something I don't enjoy, I have only myself to blame.
As I'm looking at it, therefore, I also ask myself the question: "Would I be happy spending the next few days (or weeks!) analysing every single detail of this document, or would it drive me absolutely crazy?"
If skim-reading a document makes me think "eugh" (because it's boring, tedious, difficult, contains complicated formatting or concerns a subject I hate), and my bank balance allows it, I don't accept it.
That's one of the things I love about being a freelancer!
| | | | | "Moral grounds" prevent me to withdraw from a job I committed to deliver | Sep 26, 2007 |
But I have yet to be in a situation like the one you describe...
Philippe
| | | | Kirill Semenov
युक्रेन
Local time: 19:01
सदस्य (2004)
अंग्रेजी से रूसी
+ ...
Andrea Riffo wrote:
I check every document I get. I don't do it out of fear of finding something I'm morally against, I do it:
- to give a quote based on the text and not on a description such as "it's medical" (how vague is that?). Same applies for the deadline.
- to verify that the text is really whithin my capabilities
- to verify that the whole text is readable and translatable
- to get an idea of the number of charts, graphs, et al, all of which make the job a little bit harder and a little bit slower
So if it's a children porno you don't care because it is within your capabilities and there is no charts, graphs or anything, right? I doubt it. I suppose there are some moral limitations each of us can't step over, and the content of the text we are proposed is no that unimportant as its readability and translatability. We do have our moral limits and sometimes they affect our work.
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