Sep 29, 2009 09:23
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
projet scientifique
French to English
Art/Literary
Architecture
project planning
Hi,
I have a sentence that involves defining the "projet scientifique, culturel et pédagogique" for a new art museum. No science involved, so "scientific" is clearly wrong. It means something like "research remit", but that sounds too university-based to me. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I have a sentence that involves defining the "projet scientifique, culturel et pédagogique" for a new art museum. No science involved, so "scientific" is clearly wrong. It means something like "research remit", but that sounds too university-based to me. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +6 | Blind 'em ... |
Bourth (X)
|
| 3 | knowledge-based |
Helen Shiner
|
| 2 | instructive |
Emma Paulay
|
References
| Scientific support ... |
B D Finch
|
Change log
Sep 29, 2009 09:36: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Term asked" from "\"projet scientifique\" (in this context)" to "projet scientifique"
Proposed translations
+6
13 mins
French term (edited):
"projet scientifique" (in this context)
Selected
Blind 'em ...
with science, as they say. If the French says scientifique I see no reason - in the absence of fuller text - to question it.
Maybe they do sessions on chemical analysis of paint, biological analysis of canvas, etc. The temperature-humidity meters and earthquake sensors (why? Once the earthquake hits, it's too late; are they there to detect tunnelling beneath priceless works?) you get in art galleries are all part of "science", surely.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-09-29 11:05:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I don't think yours is to reason why ....
I know it need not be a criterion, but many users have been perfectly content with "scientific" ...
And of course it can cover scientific activities that are not visible, and certainly not immediately, in the exhibition space.
The Louvre Abu Dhabi's SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROJECT provides the future museum's intellectual and conceptual backbone. It encapsulates this exchange in ...
http://www.agencefrancemuseums.fr/en/le-louvre-abou-dabi/le-...
Louvre Abu Dhabi A powerful new agency, represented by some of the most ... planning of the Louvre Abu Dhabi, including the SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROGRAM, ...
www.albawaba.com/en/entertainment/.../&searchWords=louvre
Jean Nouvel - Louvre Abu Dhabi planned for the Cultural District of ... also chairs the SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE OF THE FRENCH MUSEUMS AGENCY. ...
www.artknowledgenews.com/Louvre_Abu_Dhabi_Planned_Universal...
Louvre Abu Dhabi on fast track. A powerful new agency has been formed to steer ... of the Louvre Abu Dhabi, including the SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROGRAMME, ...
www.middleeastinteriors.com/news.asp?secid=73&artid...
It may have culturo-political repercussions:
Not until after World War II, during which a number of European nations suffered from the ILLEGAL REMOVAL OF ART during conflict, was a major international agreement issued for the PROTECTION OF CULTURAL PROPERTY. The 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict was signed by a number of Western nations, including France. The agreement is not retroactive and cannot be applied to cultural property removed from its country of origin prior to World War II. A second committee was formed in Paris in 1978 by 22 UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION members with the intention of advising formally colonized nations who sought the return of works taken by colonial states. According to UNESCO, several cases have been resolved but many more remain pending. Coincidently, France is not listed as a member of the Intergovernmental Committee for Promoting the Return of Cultural Property to its Countries of Origin. [ ... ]
True to art world irony, the BBC recently reported that Louvre president Henri Loyrette has announced plans to organize and dispatch a group of curators to the UAE to assure "scientific quality of the project and the respect of ethical rules"
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/1730
He has undertaken the examination, SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION, and treatment of the GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM'S modern and contemporary sculpture collection, ...
www.guggenheim.org/new-york/.../conservator-bios
The GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM Bilbao in SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS: Asymmetries between the American art perspective and the European regional planning viewpoint....
mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/10751/
Exhibition Detail
Ad Reinhardt
Imageless: The SCIENTIFIC STUDY and Experimental Treatment of an Ad Reinhardt Black Painting
Solomon R. GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM
1071Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10128-0173
http://www.artslant.com/ny/events/show/19210-imageless-the-s...
1. ]
A decorating dilemma at Guggenheim Museum
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View
recently stared up at the GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM and contemplated the paint swatches ... of paint and performing SCIENTIFIC ANALYSES on each one, using electron ...
www.friends-ues.org/.../a-decorating-dilemma-at-guggenheim-...
Galleria Gottardo in Lugano will be holding the world's first exhibition of the ethnic artworks collected by one of the twentieth century's greatest art patrons: Peggy Guggenheim. The idea behind the exhibition is to display the "exotic objects" that embellished the Palazzo Venier dei Leoni during the collector's lifetime. Since her death, they have been carefully restored and examined by SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHERS. The restoration project was jointly launched by Galleria Gottardo, the PEGGY GUGGENHEIM COLLECTION in Venice and the Museum of Cultures in Lugano with the aim of rediscovering the specific meaning of each object in itself and in the context in which it was purchased.
http://www.african-arts.info/peggy_guggenheim_collection.htm
The Department of Conservation and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH at the BRITISH MUSEUM.
www.britishmuseum.org/...museum/.../conservation_and_scient...
Information and application details about how to undertake SCIENTIFIC STUDY on objects in the BRITISH MUSEUM collection.
www.britishmuseum.org/...museum/...scientific/.../collectio...
The BRITISH MUSEUM Location : Bloomsbury, London It might be called The British Museum, ... The museum began sponsoring EXCAVATIONS AND OTHER SCIENTIFIC ...
www.answers.com/topic/british-museum
The BRITISH MUSEUM is a museum of human history and culture situated in London ..... the MUSEUM'S SCIENTIFIC STAFF, and new educational visitor experiences. ...
www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Natural_History_Museum
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-09-29 12:54:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Imagine too that - for instance - for reasons unbeknownst to us, the Abu Dhabi Ministry for Science is helping to fund the museum, alongside the ministries for education and culture. They might like mention of them to be made ....
Maybe they do sessions on chemical analysis of paint, biological analysis of canvas, etc. The temperature-humidity meters and earthquake sensors (why? Once the earthquake hits, it's too late; are they there to detect tunnelling beneath priceless works?) you get in art galleries are all part of "science", surely.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-09-29 11:05:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I don't think yours is to reason why ....
I know it need not be a criterion, but many users have been perfectly content with "scientific" ...
And of course it can cover scientific activities that are not visible, and certainly not immediately, in the exhibition space.
The Louvre Abu Dhabi's SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROJECT provides the future museum's intellectual and conceptual backbone. It encapsulates this exchange in ...
http://www.agencefrancemuseums.fr/en/le-louvre-abou-dabi/le-...
Louvre Abu Dhabi A powerful new agency, represented by some of the most ... planning of the Louvre Abu Dhabi, including the SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROGRAM, ...
www.albawaba.com/en/entertainment/.../&searchWords=louvre
Jean Nouvel - Louvre Abu Dhabi planned for the Cultural District of ... also chairs the SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE OF THE FRENCH MUSEUMS AGENCY. ...
www.artknowledgenews.com/Louvre_Abu_Dhabi_Planned_Universal...
Louvre Abu Dhabi on fast track. A powerful new agency has been formed to steer ... of the Louvre Abu Dhabi, including the SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL PROGRAMME, ...
www.middleeastinteriors.com/news.asp?secid=73&artid...
It may have culturo-political repercussions:
Not until after World War II, during which a number of European nations suffered from the ILLEGAL REMOVAL OF ART during conflict, was a major international agreement issued for the PROTECTION OF CULTURAL PROPERTY. The 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict was signed by a number of Western nations, including France. The agreement is not retroactive and cannot be applied to cultural property removed from its country of origin prior to World War II. A second committee was formed in Paris in 1978 by 22 UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, SCIENTIFIC AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION members with the intention of advising formally colonized nations who sought the return of works taken by colonial states. According to UNESCO, several cases have been resolved but many more remain pending. Coincidently, France is not listed as a member of the Intergovernmental Committee for Promoting the Return of Cultural Property to its Countries of Origin. [ ... ]
True to art world irony, the BBC recently reported that Louvre president Henri Loyrette has announced plans to organize and dispatch a group of curators to the UAE to assure "scientific quality of the project and the respect of ethical rules"
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/1730
He has undertaken the examination, SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION, and treatment of the GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM'S modern and contemporary sculpture collection, ...
www.guggenheim.org/new-york/.../conservator-bios
The GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM Bilbao in SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS: Asymmetries between the American art perspective and the European regional planning viewpoint....
mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/10751/
Exhibition Detail
Ad Reinhardt
Imageless: The SCIENTIFIC STUDY and Experimental Treatment of an Ad Reinhardt Black Painting
Solomon R. GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM
1071Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10128-0173
http://www.artslant.com/ny/events/show/19210-imageless-the-s...
1. ]
A decorating dilemma at Guggenheim Museum
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View
recently stared up at the GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM and contemplated the paint swatches ... of paint and performing SCIENTIFIC ANALYSES on each one, using electron ...
www.friends-ues.org/.../a-decorating-dilemma-at-guggenheim-...
Galleria Gottardo in Lugano will be holding the world's first exhibition of the ethnic artworks collected by one of the twentieth century's greatest art patrons: Peggy Guggenheim. The idea behind the exhibition is to display the "exotic objects" that embellished the Palazzo Venier dei Leoni during the collector's lifetime. Since her death, they have been carefully restored and examined by SCIENTIFIC RESEARCHERS. The restoration project was jointly launched by Galleria Gottardo, the PEGGY GUGGENHEIM COLLECTION in Venice and the Museum of Cultures in Lugano with the aim of rediscovering the specific meaning of each object in itself and in the context in which it was purchased.
http://www.african-arts.info/peggy_guggenheim_collection.htm
The Department of Conservation and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH at the BRITISH MUSEUM.
www.britishmuseum.org/...museum/.../conservation_and_scient...
Information and application details about how to undertake SCIENTIFIC STUDY on objects in the BRITISH MUSEUM collection.
www.britishmuseum.org/...museum/...scientific/.../collectio...
The BRITISH MUSEUM Location : Bloomsbury, London It might be called The British Museum, ... The museum began sponsoring EXCAVATIONS AND OTHER SCIENTIFIC ...
www.answers.com/topic/british-museum
The BRITISH MUSEUM is a museum of human history and culture situated in London ..... the MUSEUM'S SCIENTIFIC STAFF, and new educational visitor experiences. ...
www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Natural_History_Museum
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-09-29 12:54:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Imagine too that - for instance - for reasons unbeknownst to us, the Abu Dhabi Ministry for Science is helping to fund the museum, alongside the ministries for education and culture. They might like mention of them to be made ....
Note from asker:
| I agree with Helen. I also suspect the first four all repeat the same inadequate translation from the same press release. Sorry, but I still think "scientific" is too narrow in this context. |
| Also, a Google search for "scientific and cultural project" throws up a suspiciously large number of translations, mainly from the French. Not a good sign, in general. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
polyglot45
: short of ASKING them, to use any other word than "scientific" would be pure speculation. Yours not to reason why.......
11 mins
|
| agree |
writeaway
12 mins
|
| agree |
Evans (X)
: I would stick to scientific. I think it can have this wider sense in English too.
37 mins
|
| agree |
Jean-Louis S.
: scientific
44 mins
|
| agree |
B D Finch
: See my reference posting
58 mins
|
| agree |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Just want to make the point that many of your later refs refer to conservation of artworks which does indeed have a scientific element to it, but I don't think that the use of scientifique here is limited to that usage. Or you have UNESCO and translations
2 hrs
|
|
Indeed: not necess. limited to that. Could be a whole lot or other scientific stuff too!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
46 mins
instructive
An alternative if you're sure the source term means knowledge in general and not science as we usually understand it.
38 mins
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
110
knowledge-based
Many institutions use this when referring to work done by academics - ie research. It moves away from the narrowness of scientific. Essentially it means research-based, I guess.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2009-09-29 10:02:49 GMT)
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Are Museums Irrelevant? Museums are rarely acknowledged in the global discussion of climate change, environmental degradation, the inevitability of depleted fossil fuels, and the myriad local issues concerning the well-being of particular communities - suggesting the irrelevance of museums as social institutions. At the same time, there is a growing preoccupation among museums with the marketplace, and museums, unwittingly or not, are embracing the values of relentless consumption that underlie the planetary difficulties of today.
Museums in a Troubled World argues that much more can be expected of museums as publicly supported and knowledge-based institutions. The weight of tradition and a lack of imagination are significant factors in museum inertia and these obstacles are also addressed. Taking an interdisciplinary approach, combining anthropology ethnography, museum studies and management theory, this book goes beyond conventional museum thinking. Robert R. Janes explores the meaning and role of museums as key intellectual and civic resources in a time of profound social and environmental change.
http://www.le.ac.uk/bookshop/museumstudies.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2009-09-29 10:05:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here it is used specifically in relation to science, as well:
Science Education: on the agenda of the Library of Alexandria, Hoda S. Elmikaty
It is the mission of the Library of Alexandria to become a centre of excellence, and a model for the dissemination of scientific knowledge. In the knowledge-based world of the twenty-first century, capacity building in science and technology is a must. The article relates the various innovations the Library has undertaken.
http://portal.unesco.org/culture/en/ev.php-URL_ID=26966&URL_...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 46 mins (2009-09-29 10:09:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I must say that I still don't think that 'academic' would be wrong, actually.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2009-09-29 10:19:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
You might find this useful or interesting:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13673769/An-Oasis-in-the-Desert-Is...
I haven't read much of it - time constraints - but since this is the Louvre we are talking about, it will surely have academic goals, in common with all major international museums.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-09-29 10:29:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here the Louvre itself speaks of 'scientific and academic', so clearly its own staff does not think that scientific alone will do:
The Mission of a Great Museum
The principle responsibility of the Louvre is to conserve, protect, restore, and develop France's national art treasures, from the early royal collections to the most recent acquisitions. In carrying out this task, the museum’s scientific and academic staff displays steadfast commitment and universally recognized professionalism.
The priceless artworks housed in the Louvre are held for the benefit of present and future generations. Hence the vital importance of the museum's mission to make these works available to the greatest number of people possible, from France and all over the world. To do this, it is our job to ensure that every visitor enjoys the best facilities possible. But it is also essential to promote cultural access: to do as much as we can to help each visitor to approach, understand, and enjoy the works they have come to see. With this in mind, we are committed to extend the range of information available at the Louvre in languages other than French, to further develop the museum's wide range of educational resources and activities, and to make our buildings and collections more easily accessible—in every sense—to people with disabilities and to new audiences.
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/mission.jsp
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2009-09-29 10:02:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Are Museums Irrelevant? Museums are rarely acknowledged in the global discussion of climate change, environmental degradation, the inevitability of depleted fossil fuels, and the myriad local issues concerning the well-being of particular communities - suggesting the irrelevance of museums as social institutions. At the same time, there is a growing preoccupation among museums with the marketplace, and museums, unwittingly or not, are embracing the values of relentless consumption that underlie the planetary difficulties of today.
Museums in a Troubled World argues that much more can be expected of museums as publicly supported and knowledge-based institutions. The weight of tradition and a lack of imagination are significant factors in museum inertia and these obstacles are also addressed. Taking an interdisciplinary approach, combining anthropology ethnography, museum studies and management theory, this book goes beyond conventional museum thinking. Robert R. Janes explores the meaning and role of museums as key intellectual and civic resources in a time of profound social and environmental change.
http://www.le.ac.uk/bookshop/museumstudies.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2009-09-29 10:05:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here it is used specifically in relation to science, as well:
Science Education: on the agenda of the Library of Alexandria, Hoda S. Elmikaty
It is the mission of the Library of Alexandria to become a centre of excellence, and a model for the dissemination of scientific knowledge. In the knowledge-based world of the twenty-first century, capacity building in science and technology is a must. The article relates the various innovations the Library has undertaken.
http://portal.unesco.org/culture/en/ev.php-URL_ID=26966&URL_...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 46 mins (2009-09-29 10:09:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I must say that I still don't think that 'academic' would be wrong, actually.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2009-09-29 10:19:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
You might find this useful or interesting:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13673769/An-Oasis-in-the-Desert-Is...
I haven't read much of it - time constraints - but since this is the Louvre we are talking about, it will surely have academic goals, in common with all major international museums.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-09-29 10:29:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here the Louvre itself speaks of 'scientific and academic', so clearly its own staff does not think that scientific alone will do:
The Mission of a Great Museum
The principle responsibility of the Louvre is to conserve, protect, restore, and develop France's national art treasures, from the early royal collections to the most recent acquisitions. In carrying out this task, the museum’s scientific and academic staff displays steadfast commitment and universally recognized professionalism.
The priceless artworks housed in the Louvre are held for the benefit of present and future generations. Hence the vital importance of the museum's mission to make these works available to the greatest number of people possible, from France and all over the world. To do this, it is our job to ensure that every visitor enjoys the best facilities possible. But it is also essential to promote cultural access: to do as much as we can to help each visitor to approach, understand, and enjoy the works they have come to see. With this in mind, we are committed to extend the range of information available at the Louvre in languages other than French, to further develop the museum's wide range of educational resources and activities, and to make our buildings and collections more easily accessible—in every sense—to people with disabilities and to new audiences.
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/mission.jsp
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference:
Scientific support ...
"The National Gallery Technical Bulletin, published annually, is a unique record of research carried out by the Gallery's Scientific and Conservation Departments..."
www.nationalgallery.co.uk/.../National-Gallery-Technical-Bu... -
"Science and art converge at the national gallery of art - This article demonstrates how the fields of science and conservation h : Encyclopedia.com."
www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P3-12588689.html -
"31 Aug 2009 ... Curious about how science is used to preserve Ireland's treasured art and historical items? Then don't miss National Gallery of Ireland's ..."
sciencegallery.com/node/1092 -
www.nationalgallery.co.uk/.../National-Gallery-Technical-Bu... -
"Science and art converge at the national gallery of art - This article demonstrates how the fields of science and conservation h : Encyclopedia.com."
www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P3-12588689.html -
"31 Aug 2009 ... Curious about how science is used to preserve Ireland's treasured art and historical items? Then don't miss National Gallery of Ireland's ..."
sciencegallery.com/node/1092 -
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Again, as I said above, this relates only to conservation of artworks. I believe the scientifique here has a broader meaning encompassing the work of curators, too, which is academic/research-based rather than scientific per se.
1 hr
|
Discussion
Thanks for taking the time to look at this.
BTW, I hope I'm replying in the right place: I can never work out where I'm supposed to post on my own posts!