Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
décision du Conseil d’Etat qui doit être saisi préalablement...
English translation:
the decision of the Council of State, to which the matter must first be referred / submitted
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Dec 16, 2018 01:14
5 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term
Mexico
Translation QA Specialist
Native in: Spanish (Variants: Mexican, Standard-Spain, Latin American) 
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, French to Spanish, and 3 more.
décision du Conseil d’Etat qui doit être saisi préalablement...
French to English
Law/Patents
Government / Politics
saisir
Hi, there. Any suggestions? My mother tongue is Spanish and I just happen to fail to fully understand the term. Thank you in advance.
La suspension ou la dissolution du parti politique est décidée sur décision du Conseil d’Etat qui doit être saisi préalablement par requête du ministre de l’intérieur.
...obligeant l'organisme employeur pour les fautes de saisir sur rapport motivé, le conseil de discipline
... permet d’entamer une procédure civile devant les juridictions qui ont compétence à ordonner des réparations civiles à l’Etat demandeur. La juridiction saisie d’une telle, peut demander aux personnes condamnées pour des faits de corruption...
... prononcée par les tribunaux nationaux saisis en la matière...
Thank you very much!!!
La suspension ou la dissolution du parti politique est décidée sur décision du Conseil d’Etat qui doit être saisi préalablement par requête du ministre de l’intérieur.
...obligeant l'organisme employeur pour les fautes de saisir sur rapport motivé, le conseil de discipline
... permet d’entamer une procédure civile devant les juridictions qui ont compétence à ordonner des réparations civiles à l’Etat demandeur. La juridiction saisie d’une telle, peut demander aux personnes condamnées pour des faits de corruption...
... prononcée par les tribunaux nationaux saisis en la matière...
Thank you very much!!!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | is decided by the Council of State, to which the matter must first be referred / submitted |
Charles Davis
|
Change log
Dec 30, 2018 08:16: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
1 hr
Selected
is decided by the Council of State, to which the matter must first be referred / submitted
I think you can reduce "est décidée sur décision du" to "is decided by"; alternatively, you could say "is subject to the decision of".
"Saisir" means to refer a matter to an authority for consideration and judgment. The thing is that the authority to which it is referred is the direct object. Here is the relevant definition from the Trésor:
saisir
II. A.
2. [Le compl. d'obj. dir. désigne une autorité reconnue, une instance officielle, judiciaire, législative, admin.; p. méton., un tribunal, la justice; le compl. d'obj. indir. désigne une affaire, un différend, une demande, une question, un projet] Porter auprès d'une autorité, d'une juridiction une affaire de son ressort; la charger d'examiner, de juger ce dossier. [...] C'est le président de l'Assemblée Nationale qui saisit le gouvernement du texte à promulguer [...]"
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/saisir
So you get examples like this (from Larousse):
"saisir
7. la justice, saisie de l'affaire, annonce que...
the judicial authorities, apprised of the case, have indicated that...
la juridiction compétente a été saisie
the case was referred to the appropriate jurisdiction"
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/saisi...
In other words, "le Conseil d'État doit être saisi" means that the matter must be referred or submitted to the Council of State. The thing referred is not expressed here in French, but it needs to be expressed in English. Rather than just "it", I think it would be better to say "the matter".
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Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2018-12-17 05:37:21 GMT)
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On reflection, I think "est décidée sur décision du" is probably not a tautology; I think it means "is decided on the basis of the decision of the Council of State". In other words, I think the idea is that the Council of State does not actually decide to suspend or dissolve political parties; it is an advisory body, which decides whether a party should be suspended or dissolved, and then the government decides whether to do so on the basis of its advice.
"Saisir" means to refer a matter to an authority for consideration and judgment. The thing is that the authority to which it is referred is the direct object. Here is the relevant definition from the Trésor:
saisir
II. A.
2. [Le compl. d'obj. dir. désigne une autorité reconnue, une instance officielle, judiciaire, législative, admin.; p. méton., un tribunal, la justice; le compl. d'obj. indir. désigne une affaire, un différend, une demande, une question, un projet] Porter auprès d'une autorité, d'une juridiction une affaire de son ressort; la charger d'examiner, de juger ce dossier. [...] C'est le président de l'Assemblée Nationale qui saisit le gouvernement du texte à promulguer [...]"
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/saisir
So you get examples like this (from Larousse):
"saisir
7. la justice, saisie de l'affaire, annonce que...
the judicial authorities, apprised of the case, have indicated that...
la juridiction compétente a été saisie
the case was referred to the appropriate jurisdiction"
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/saisi...
In other words, "le Conseil d'État doit être saisi" means that the matter must be referred or submitted to the Council of State. The thing referred is not expressed here in French, but it needs to be expressed in English. Rather than just "it", I think it would be better to say "the matter".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2018-12-17 05:37:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
On reflection, I think "est décidée sur décision du" is probably not a tautology; I think it means "is decided on the basis of the decision of the Council of State". In other words, I think the idea is that the Council of State does not actually decide to suspend or dissolve political parties; it is an advisory body, which decides whether a party should be suspended or dissolved, and then the government decides whether to do so on the basis of its advice.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
3 hrs
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Thanks, Phil!
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| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, one of those notions that's always a little tricky to express neatly in EN.
3 hrs
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Thanks, Tony! Yes, the syntax is the other way round. It reminds me, though, of the Civil Service expression "to be seized of": "We are seized of the matter"; "the council is seized of the need for more parking provision". Must come straight from French.
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| agree |
Daryo
: yes for the key element: "must first be referred / submitted" // as for the rest, perfectly good variant, but also not the only one - depending on how the whole of the sentence was translated, you could recombine in may ways.
6 hrs
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Thanks, Daryo. I agree; there is more than one way of expressing it.
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| agree |
James A. Walsh
9 hrs
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Cheers, James :-)
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| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
10 hrs
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Thanks, Nikki :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
Discussion