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¡Finally here! WWA rating for translators
Thread poster: Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 16:21
SITE FOUNDER
Supplementing / making resource available Oct 17, 2017

Ramey Rieger wrote:

I don't get it!? My clients gladly give feedback, what has changed? It looks good on my profile when clients have lauded my work. What am I missing??

Here among the staff, we are currently doing a "hackathon". We have come together in person and have taken up four potential projects and are exploring the potential value for our members in each.

The concept being explored here -- and it is at a relatively early stage -- is to supplement WWA with 1-5 star "WWA ratings", just as last year in the Blue Board LWA was supplemented with 1-5 star category ratings. There are a number of reasons to explore this sort of approach, but one of them is that ProZ.com is now programmatically connected with other platforms and tools, and 1-5 stars is a very common standard. (For example, our partnership with Boostlingo resulted in 600 calls to ProZ.com interpreters last week. After most or all of these calls, the client was asked to rate the interpreter on a 1-5 scale. This data can be pulled into ProZ.com, for the potential use -- at their discretion -- of the interpreters.)

More information will come out if we do decide to move forward with this feature.

By the way, everything we ever do at ProZ.com is for translators first, and always fully permission-based.

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves"; in fact, ProZ.com has gone from 0 to 4500 Plus subscribers in less than a year, and the overall number of members is currently rising. It is our commitment and passion to continue to offer you, our members, more and more value for your membership.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 16:21
SITE FOUNDER
Hello from Syracuse Oct 17, 2017

By the way the other three projects we are working on are:

* Directory improvement (through self-ranking of services and specialty fields)
* ProZ.com Payments ("Get Paid Now")
* Cloud Jobs / Automated Management

All are at early stages, this is exploratory stuff. We have new teams members and are getting together also for personal / team-building reasons.

hackathon_pose


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:21
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Great motto Oct 17, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:


By the way, everything we ever do at ProZ.com is for translators first, and always fully permission-based.



Hi Henry,

Actually this is a great motto, it should be listed in ProZ.com's Professional Guidelines.


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:21
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Keep up the good work! Oct 17, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Ramey Rieger wrote:

I don't get it!? My clients gladly give feedback, what has changed? It looks good on my profile when clients have lauded my work. What am I missing??

Here among the staff, we are currently doing a "hackathon". We have come together in person and have taken up four potential projects and exploring the potential value for our members in each.

The concept being explored here -- and it is at a relatively early stage -- is to supplement WWA with 1-5 star "WWA ratings", just as last year in the Blue Board LWA was supplemented with 1-5 star category ratings. There are a number of reasons to explore this sort of approach, but one of them is that ProZ.com is now programmatically connected with other platforms and tools, and 1-5 stars is a very common standard. (For example our partnership with Boostlingo resulted in 600 calls to ProZ.com interpreters last week. After most or all of these calls, the client was asked to rate the interpreter on a 1-5 scale. This data can be pulled into ProZ.com, for the potential use -- at their discretion -- of the interpreters.

More information will come out if we do decide to move forward with this feature.

By the way, everything we ever do at ProZ.com is for translators first, and always fully permission-based.

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this of that dozens of times over the year, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves"; in fact, ProZ.com has gone from 0 to 4500 Plus subscribers in less than a year, and the overall number of members is currently rising. It is our commitment and passion to continue to offer you, our members, more and more value for your membership.


I'm not going anywhere.

I was contacted by two different agencies (via Proz.com) since Monday (its only Tuesday), each offering over €0.15/source word, which is quite good for an agency rate, for Dutch>English, iyam. I'm definitely getting my money's worth.

Michael

[Edited at 2017-10-17 19:15 GMT]


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:21
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Now -> future Oct 17, 2017

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Ramey Rieger wrote:

I don't get it!? My clients gladly give feedback, what has changed? It looks good on my profile when clients have lauded my work. What am I missing??

Here among the staff, we are currently doing a "hackathon". We have come together in person and have taken up four potential projects and exploring the potential value for our members in each.

The concept being explored here -- and it is at a relatively early stage -- is to supplement WWA with 1-5 star "WWA ratings", just as last year in the Blue Board LWA was supplemented with 1-5 star category ratings. There are a number of reasons to explore this sort of approach, but one of them is that ProZ.com is now programmatically connected with other platforms and tools, and 1-5 stars is a very common standard. (For example our partnership with Boostlingo resulted in 600 calls to ProZ.com interpreters last week. After most or all of these calls, the client was asked to rate the interpreter on a 1-5 scale. This data can be pulled into ProZ.com, for the potential use -- at their discretion -- of the interpreters.

More information will come out if we do decide to move forward with this feature.

By the way, everything we ever do at ProZ.com is for translators first, and always fully permission-based.

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this of that dozens of times over the year, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves"; in fact, ProZ.com has gone from 0 to 4500 Plus subscribers in less than a year, and the overall number of members is currently rising. It is our commitment and passion to continue to offer you, our members, more and more value for your membership.


I'm not going anywhere.

I was contacted by two different agencies (via Proz.com) since Monday (its only Tuesday), each offering over €0.15/source word, which is quite good for an agency rate, for Dutch>English, iyam). I'm definitely getting my money's worth.

Michael


That's now. Today. But before initiations are implemented all future results should be taken into account: for example what kind of effects they will have on the market?

Katalin

[Edited at 2017-10-17 17:15 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:21
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I agree, and I think that is probably what they are doing right now in Syracuse: … Oct 17, 2017

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Ramey Rieger wrote:

I don't get it!? My clients gladly give feedback, what has changed? It looks good on my profile when clients have lauded my work. What am I missing??

Here among the staff, we are currently doing a "hackathon". We have come together in person and have taken up four potential projects and exploring the potential value for our members in each.

The concept being explored here -- and it is at a relatively early stage -- is to supplement WWA with 1-5 star "WWA ratings", just as last year in the Blue Board LWA was supplemented with 1-5 star category ratings. There are a number of reasons to explore this sort of approach, but one of them is that ProZ.com is now programmatically connected with other platforms and tools, and 1-5 stars is a very common standard. (For example our partnership with Boostlingo resulted in 600 calls to ProZ.com interpreters last week. After most or all of these calls, the client was asked to rate the interpreter on a 1-5 scale. This data can be pulled into ProZ.com, for the potential use -- at their discretion -- of the interpreters.

More information will come out if we do decide to move forward with this feature.

By the way, everything we ever do at ProZ.com is for translators first, and always fully permission-based.

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this of that dozens of times over the year, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves"; in fact, ProZ.com has gone from 0 to 4500 Plus subscribers in less than a year, and the overall number of members is currently rising. It is our commitment and passion to continue to offer you, our members, more and more value for your membership.


I'm not going anywhere.

I was contacted by two different agencies (via Proz.com) since Monday (its only Tuesday), each offering over €0.15/source word, which is quite good for an agency rate, for Dutch>English, iyam). I'm definitely getting my money's worth.

Michael


That's now. Today. But before initiations are implemented all future results should be taken into account: for example what kind of effects they will have on the market?

Katalin

[Edited at 2017-10-17 17:15 GMT]


… taking into account what kind of effect the proposed changes might have on our future market/sector. I don't think Henry is out to destroy the market and lower prices for us all. It wouldn't make much business sense (for him or for us), if you ask me.

Michael


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 21:21
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
This will be interesting. Fair, I don't know, but interesting for sure. Oct 17, 2017

From a quick look at the comments, it looks like many colleagues are shaking in their boots at the prospect of being evaluated. I wonder why...

 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:21
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
The same old folks? Oct 17, 2017

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:

Ramey Rieger wrote:

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves"; in fact, ProZ.com has gone from 0 to 4500 Plus subscribers in less than a year, and the overall number of members is currently rising. It is our commitment and passion to continue to offer you, our members, more and more value for your membership.


What kind of comment is this from a "SITE FOUNDER"? These "same old folks", as you call them, are critical, and you can agree with them or not, but they are your clients who also keep this platform alive.

So, instead of insulting them, hear them out, they might have a point!

I am really amazed.




[Edited at 2017-10-17 22:06 GMT]


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:21
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Henry, really? "Same old folks?" Oct 18, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do.


Henry, this was totally uncalled for and IMHO very unprofessional.


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:21
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
To be continued: Oct 18, 2017

Álvaro Espantaleón wrote:

basically, the translator will do absolutely anything to please the outsourcer and get 5 stars. Like accepting even lower rates, accepting proofreading for free, accepting crazy deadlines, accepting any possible request from the outsourcer (regardless of how unfair it might be), etc.


... and like accepting

  • being paid after 90 days
  • being insulted when reminding for payment
  • taking free "test pieces" > 500 words (i.e. catalogue articles) with an urgent deadline
  • accepting ridiculously paid 99-100% matches, which turn out as machine translations

    (to be continued)

    [Edited at 2017-10-18 06:35 GMT]

     
  • Gitte Hoveds (X)
    Gitte Hoveds (X)
    Denmark
    Local time: 21:21
    Danish to English
    + ...
    +1 Oct 18, 2017

    Chris S wrote:
    Why is it a problem being rated by your customers?
    Why is it not an opportunity to stand out from the crowd?
    Why is this a reason to leave?


    Couldn't have said it better...


     
    Angie Garbarino
    Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
    Local time: 21:21
    Member (2003)
    French to Italian
    + ...
    I feel offended Oct 18, 2017

    Henry Dotterer wrote:

    As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do.


    I never threatened to leave, just expressed my opinion in good faith, but I am one of the "old folks" and I feel insulted,

    To me this is a very dangerous change for many reasons already explained in the previous posts.

    To those people who "WONDER WHY" apparently without reading the posts explaining "why": Please read the other posts and discuss the reasons before "wondering why".

    Bye

    [Edited at 2017-10-18 08:20 GMT]


     
    Georgie Scott
    Georgie Scott  Identity Verified
    France
    Local time: 21:21
    French to English
    + ...
    Power Oct 18, 2017

    That's the issue for me: who has the most power. In this industry, agencies have far, far more power than freelancers (power in numbers, financial power, perceived power of "legitimacy", power in volume). A quick look back over the history of the world shows that power is very frequently abused and used to manipulate and dominate those with less power. Hence the reactions from "the same old folk", whose opinions might just reflect the opinions of at least the same proportion of site users who "l... See more
    That's the issue for me: who has the most power. In this industry, agencies have far, far more power than freelancers (power in numbers, financial power, perceived power of "legitimacy", power in volume). A quick look back over the history of the world shows that power is very frequently abused and used to manipulate and dominate those with less power. Hence the reactions from "the same old folk", whose opinions might just reflect the opinions of at least the same proportion of site users who "lurk" but don't post.

    Proz has its own power. Over the last year, lots of translators have said to me - in response to me advocating Proz membership - "I don't like the site and don't think recent changes have added any real value but I don't know if I can afford not to have membership when my competitors do."

    The Blue Board gives freelancers a little more power. Negative WWA ratings hand this power and more back to agencies. Hence the scepticism.

    Perhaps it will be a good thing but having seen how Airbnb ratings work and the damage that one unjustified "average" rating can do, I have my doubts. There is a huge amount of content voicing the same concerns over 1-5 star ratings in other industries.

    And the MAJOR difference between Blue Board and WWA ratings is that Blue Board ratings are used by service providers (freelancers) to manage risk and not by CLIENTS researching quality and experience, whereas WWA ratings ARE used by potential clients to research quality and experience. Of course, this could be an argument in favour of 1-5 ratings but it goes against the logic that just because you can have negative Blue Board ratings it should follow that negative freelancer ratings should be allowed.
    Collapse


     
    Tom in London
    Tom in London
    United Kingdom
    Local time: 20:21
    Member (2008)
    Italian to English
    Competition Oct 18, 2017

    Georgie Scott wrote:

    Proz has its own power.


    ...which unfortunately is (virtually) absolute. I know of no other translation website that is so active, so comprehensive, and so universally used (and no, you can't quote me in your marketing literature).

    And that's a problem.

    I can't believe there's nobody out there with the business acumen, the resources, and the dedication to start up at least ONE website that does what Proz does, but better.

    Until there is, Proz will be able to do whatever it wants. But I hope the Proz office banter will stay in the office.

    [Edited at 2017-10-18 07:37 GMT]


     
    Christopher Schröder
    Christopher Schröder
    United Kingdom
    Member (2011)
    Swedish to English
    + ...
    Snowflakes Oct 18, 2017

    Henry Dotterer wrote:

    As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do.


    Lol. It's not often Mr Diplomacy crawls out of the woodwork, despite the same old people slagging off his baby yet again but continuing to use and enjoy it. I know I wouldn't have shown this level of restraint.

    It's his site, he can do what he wants. Get over it. No?

    And now people are getting offended. It seems the snowflake generation is taking over the world.

    If you actually are one of those people who are moaning (again) and threatening to leave (again) and not doing so (again), what is there to be offended by? If you're not one of them, he's not even talking about you.

    So what's there to be offended by?


     
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